Last Night a DJ Queered My Life: Disrupting the Mythologies

of a Popular Media Practice

by

Rekha Malhotra

B.A. Urban Studies, Queens College, CUNY, 1998

SUBMITTED TO THE
PROGRAM IN COMPARATIVE MEDIA STUDIES/WRITING
IN PARTIAL FULFILLMENT OF THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE DEGREE OF

MASTER OF SCIENCE IN COMPARATIVE MEDIA STUDIES

AT THE

MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY

June 2019

@2019 Rekha Malhotra. All rights reserved.

The author hereby grants to MIT permission to reproduce and to distribute

publicly paper and electronic copies of this thesis document in whole or in part in any
medium now known or hereafter created.

Signature of Author: Signature redacted-_

Department of dompa ife-M.Q4iatudies/Writing
May 24, 2019

Certified Signature redacted

by:
Vivek Bald
Director of Graduate Studies, Associate Professor,
Comparative Media Studies,
Thesis Supervisor

Certified
by:_
Signature redacted
Lisa Parks Professor,
Comparative Media Studies
F OFYH Thesis Advisor

JU-N 1 1 2019

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 Last Night a DJ Queered My Life: Disrupting the Mythologies
of a Popular Media Practice
by
Rekha Malhotra
Submitted to the Department of Comparative Media Studies/Writing
On May 24, 2019 in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of
Master of Science in Comparative Media Studies.

Abstract
DJing is an important cultural practice that emerged in the United States in the 1970s. The
development of its craft, techniques, and technologies over the past five decades has made
DJing into a formidable performed cultural practice and art. The metaphors for a disc jockey,
or DJ, are many: beat conductor, god, mastermind, and savior, to name a few. The popular
perception of what a DJ does is exaggerated by overrepresented elements of a DJ
performance, most notably scratching the sound source and utilizing studio production
technique. I ask, if these standard conceptions of DJing are centered on the male figure of a
DJ, what are the lived experiences of women and nonbinary DJs? This project examines
queer and feminist DJ practice through ethnographic research with women and nonbinary
DJs of color. From this research, I produced a 5-episode short form podcast series, From
The Decks. The podcast format not only provides information about the various findings, it
inserts the artists and their sounds into the research. Included in this thesis is the text of the
interviews in their entirety so that the archive will have the in-depth detail of the cultural
practice within the contemporary arena of media and communication

Thesis Supervisor: Vivek Bald,

Title: Director of Graduate Studies, Associate Professor, Comparative Media Studies

Thesis Advisor: Lisa Parks,

Title: Professor, Comparative Media Studies

3
 Acknowledgements

I am in deep gratitude for all the support and encouragement I received in this
decision to go to graduate school a few weeks after ending a 20-year monthly club
night.

To all the DJs that shared their time and their stories- DJ Ayes Cold,
JADALEREIGN, DJ Laylo, DJ Reborn, Rimarkable, DJ SellyF, DJ Shilpa/Scarlett88,
DJ Twelve45, DJ Ushka, Zeemuffin.

This grumpy New Yorker found a community away from home in the Zucchinis. You
helped assemble furniture, held spare keys, danced at my gigs, made me food when
I was sick, built speaker cables, shared donuts, but, more than those material
gestures provided me with a family and What's App list that I will cherish forever.

Ganavya Doriaswamy- from Spotify to Monkey Shoulders to Ethnography of Fun.

Huma Gupta- the best person to share a gully with. Apna Time Aayega.

Shireen Hamza- the media friend everyone needs in their corner, from taping videos
for class submission to documenting gigs to interviewing me for my final podcast.

Rajna Swaminathan- who knew we would have such a history in the colonial settler
state of Massachusetts.

Sasha Constanza-Chock, who put the first drop of an idea in my head about
considering this program.

Parmesh Shahani, for encouraging me to apply. I am humbled to be an alumnus of

the same program as you have created big steps to follow.

My advisors, Lisa Parks and Vivek Bald, who encouraged me, despite my
resistance, to value my own history and include it in the work.

Lisa Parks it has been a pleasure and honor to have you as a professor and media
studies mentor. Your genius and generosity

Vivek Bald you have taught me so much about the value of lost histories which has
inspired this project. Here is to the middle-aged Mutiny.

My cohort, especially Josefina Buschmann for the co-writing sessions and sharing
the same thesis delivery timeline; Libby Falck for sharing positivity, passion for civic
engagement and eating my experimental egg muffins; Matt Graydon for being a
great project partner-- we are a killer team; and, Rachel Thompson for nerding out
on podcasts with me.

The Comparative Media Studies Department, especially Shannon Larkin who

supplied an endless supply of coffee and chocolates, and fielded formatting
questions until the last few minutes before printing this document.

4
My chosen family: Gail Cooper, Tanuja Desai-Hidier, Chitra Ganesh, Swati Khurana,
Rachel Mattson, Joey Mogul, Bushra Rehman, Sa'dia Rehman

My bestie, Sarita Khurana for visiting and screening your film and all around bffness

Nirmal Munshi, my mother-in-law, for feeding me home cooked meals during the
breaks and keeping me informed on all things Birchwood.

My parents, sister and, our newest addition, Teddy, and especially my mother from
whom I inherited the learning gene and who has always supported my curiosity to
learn new things.

My bhai, Raj Makhija, this was all a dream that you help make possible.

Dearest Dimpy who supplied me with endless bitmojis and another millienial
encouragements.

Soniya Munshi, for her eternal patience, support, and intellectual engagement. We
have come a long way from ricochet and Liberace.

5
6
 Last Night a DJ Queered My Life: Exploring and Disrupting the Mythologies of
a Popular Critical Media Practice
Rekha Malhotra

Introduction 8

The DJ in Popular Culture 20

YouTube as a Pedagogical Site 25

Research Methods 28

Media Intervention: Podcast- From The Decks 30

Research Findings 33

Technology and Techniques 33

Space and Identity 36

Labor 40

Conclusion 43

Bibliography 44

Appendix 46
Podcast Transcripts 47
From The Decks: Introduction 46
DJ Ayes Cold 50
DJ Reborn 56
Rimarkable 62
DJ Ushka 68
DJ Rekha 73
Interviews 78
DJ Ayes Cold 79
JADALAREIGN 113
DJ Laylo 140
DJ Reborn 162
Rimarkable 200
DJ Shilpa/Scarlett88 246
Twelve45 278
DJ Uskha 310
Roundtable: DJ Rekha, Rimarkable, 334
DJ Selly, Zeemuffin
Survey Data 383

7
INTRODUCTION

Since its beginnings in the 1970s, DJing has emerged as an important cultural

practice, one that is ubiquitous in popular music across the United States, Europe

and many parts of the world. At its simplest, the work of a disc jockey, or DJ, can be
understood as playing a continuous stream of music over a sound system. The term

was first used in an article in Variety magazine in 1941 to refer the radio announcer

speaking before playing a record as if to ride the track.1 In the contemporary

context, the DJ has emerged as a figure that plays music in a variety of locations for

the purpose of a listening audience, frequently in spaces to stimulate dancing and

movement.

This musical stream requires the connection of two playback devices

(turntables, CD decks, computer drives) to a mixer, which is a central device that

regulates the output of each device through volume controls and/or a crossfader.

The end result is continuous sound. Over the past four decades, DJs have

developed a set of specific techniques as part of the craft and, along with

technological advances, have forged DJing into a performance-based cultural

practice and art form.

This project takes a close look at DJing as a media-centered cultural practice.

Media historian Lisa Gitelman defines media as:

socially realized structures of communication, where structures include both

technological forms and their associated protocols, and where communication
is a cultural practice, a ritualized co-location of different people on the same
mental map, sharing or engaged with popular ontologies of representation. As
such, media are unique and complicated historical subjects. Their histories
must be social and cultural, not the stories of how one technology leads to
another, or of isolated geniuses working their magic on the world. 2

1 Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton. Last Night A DJ Saved My Life (London: Grove Press, 1999
2 Lisa Gitelman. Always Already New: Media, History, and the Data of Culture. (Cambridge, MA. MIT
Press, 2008),10.
8
As Gitelman asserts, the study of media must go beyond examining media

technologies in isolation to consider the social and cultural contexts within which they

emerge, change, and develop.

DJing is also, specifically, a popular media practice. DJs perform at weddings,

music festivals, in nightclubs, as members of bands, and at any number of venues

where audiences listen and dance to music. This relationship of DJing to the popular,

to daily life and community formation, makes it an important object of study. As

cultural studies scholar Stuart Hall puts it:

Popular culture is one of the sites where [the] struggle for and against a
culture of the powerful is engaged: it is also the stake to be won or lost in that
struggle. It is the arena of consent and resistance. It is partly where
hegemony arises, and where it is secured. It is not a sphere where socialism,
a socialist culture - already fully formed - might be simply 'expressed'. But it
is one of the places where socialism might be constituted. That is why
'popular culture' matters. Otherwise, to tell you the truth, I don't give a damn
about it. 3

The impetus for this project is my own experience working as a DJ for over

twenty-five years and seeing neither my lived experiences nor the social and cultural

contexts within which I perform reflected in the available discourses on DJing.

I was born in London, England in the early 1970s to Punjabi parents who

were child refugees of the Indian and Pakistani Partition of 1947. After a forbidden

love marriage in 1968, they moved with my older sister, who was two at the time, to

London. They were quickly immersed in a Punjabi community - albeit a new and

different one, as they were from the city of New Delhi and many of the immigrants in

London were from rural parts of the Indian state of Punjab. The Punjabi communities

in the UK were part of a migration spurred by the labor shortage in post- World War

3 Stuart Hall. "Notes on Deconstructing the Popular." In People's History and Socialist Theory. Ed.
Raphael Samuel (London: Routledge, 1981), 239.

9
I1 Britain in the late 1950s and 1960s. And when they left their villages for Britain,

they brought with them their cultural traditions, including music.

Six years after they arrived in England, my parents moved to New York City to

pursue better economic opportunities. Another four years in, they bought a house in

Westbury, Long Island, a suburban area twenty-five miles away from Manhattan

which was where my father ran numerous small businesses. This "Village," as it was

designated, was racially and economically diverse but the school system was

segregated. White families primarily sent their children to private schools and the

public school system was largely made up of Black students. After one year of

private school, due to economic hardship, I entered public school as a sixth grader.

Growing up in Westbury exposed me to the rich culture of second generation

Caribbean Americans. I also witnessed the birth of hip-hop as we were in close

proximity to the Queens hip-hop scene. Hip-hop, the music as well as its five

elements of graffiti, breakdancing, DJing, MCing, and knowledge, was the dominant

topic of conversation in school. Many of my classmates were actively engaged in

breakdancing, graffiti, and composing rap lyrics.

In my interviews for this project, I asked many of my subjects if they

remember the first time they saw a DJ. Three of us have the same memory of

watching the 1984 Grammy Awards on TV and seeing Herbie Hancock perform a

live version of his track "Rock It". A New York Times write-up of the performance,

published the next day, states that it "featured synth drums, a stacked keyboard rig

and a D.J. behind a set of Technics 1200s - Grand Mixer DST - whose scratching

made him the track's breakout hero." 4 This performance was all the seventh

4 Nate Chinen. "Two Turntables and a Keytar: The Night Herbie Hancock Rocked the Grammys." The
New York Times (New York, NY), February 8, 2016.

10
graders could talk about at my school the next day. Yet, as much I was moved by

that performance and as much as I became immersed in hip-hop music from that

moment onward, I did not envision the possibility of being "behind the decks" - of

being a DJ myself.

In 1986, when I was fifteen, my mother went to England to attend the wedding

engagement celebration of a family that my parents were close with when they lived

there. She brought me back a cassette tape of Birmingham-based Bhangra singer

Malkit Singh's album, Upfront, as it was very popular at the event. The music was

groundbreaking. It was a departure from the South Asian popular music of Hindi

language films-the term Bollywood was not yet in parlance-to which I had thus far

been exposed. The vocals were in Punjabi, my parents' mother tongue, but in a

different dialect. The rhythms were electrifying.

A few years later, two of my male cousins, Nitin and Deepak, moved from

India to the States with the intention of settling down here. Our age difference-they

were four and six years younger-felt significant at the time. But, since I was

attending Queens College on the same plot of land as their high school, our close

proximity to each other fostered a relationship. Our growing bond over music

deepened our connection. Through their South Asian classmates, they were getting

remixes of Punjabi songs layered and mixed with hip-hop, dancehall, and electronic

beats.

The vocals of Malkit Singh, the artist I fell in love with a few years earlier, were

now embedded in an eleven-plus minute track, Golden Star U.K. Ragga Muffin Mix

(1991), by U.K.-based Punjabi producer Bally Sagoo. Sonically, this medley

embodied the Caribbean sounds of dancehall that I was exposed to living in

Westbury and incorporated a DJ aesthetic of blending in the various songs from

11
Malkit Singh's band Golden Star. The style of music is referred to as Bhangra, and,

more specifically, since it came from Great Britain, it was also known as UK

Bhangra.

During this time in the early 1990s, my cousins and I saw the emergence of

DJs in the Indian community at cultural events and social gatherings. We felt our

combined musical knowledge of Indian and American music and my unused credit

card would be enough for us to form our own DJ crew. On June 26, 1992, our

"Sangam Sounds" was the DJ crew for hire for a little boy named Ankush's first

birthday party at Bombay Harbor restaurant in New Hyde Park, New York. The DJ

set up consisted of two consumer CD players, including one that I pulled out of my

parent's hi-fi rack system, a Radio Shack Public Address System mixer, a tape deck,

a receiver (also from the parents' hi-fi rack system), and a set of low quality carpeted

DJ speakers. We had only 15 CDs, which caused us to repeat several key tracks-- a

DJ no-no. In our inexperience with the technology, we did not account for the

receiver, which was powering the speakers, overheating. This necessitated

borrowing a fan from a college classmate who lived close by. The compensation for

the night was $51.

From there, the gigs became more lucrative. We slowly amassed music in the

form of several crates of physical vinyl records and CDs. Within a couple of years we

had two turntables, a professional mixer, a commercial grade amplifier, and DJ

speakers, as well as several crates of records and CDs. Meanwhile, due to family

circumstances, Nitin first, and then Deepak a few months later, returned to India.

My role in the crew was gendered. Being older, owning a car, and possessing

a credit card established me as the informal head of operations. Nitin took on the

actual act of DJing. Then, when he left, Deepak took on this role. In fact, when Nitin

12
left, Deepak had very little experience on the decks, but we worked out a system

where I would select the music and he would be the one to actually play it. Upon

Deepak's departure, I was left with several thousand pieces of music and a slew of

bookings, but I had not actually DJed.

Through my networks, I was introduced to Joy Bhattacharya, another student

who DJed at his college radio station. He agreed to help me on my next booked gig

on August 4, 1995, a 4 0th birthday party for one my parents' friends, seventy miles

away from my home in Westbury. Joy was also living at home a few miles away

from me. That summer Friday, I picked him up after his car died and we made our

way through rush hour traffic. After many of the guests arrived, we set up on a multi-

shelf computer table, putting the different pieces of gear on various shelves. I had

given Deepak man of the CDs we accumulated as a parting gift so I had to resort to

using cassette tapes for some of the tracks.

Over the next year, I greatly improved my rudimentary DJ skills by spending

hours in Joy's parents' basement where the gear was set up on a ping-pong table.

He was very adept in spinning and patiently imparted his knowledge. One year later,

on August 4, 1996, Joy and I performed in front of 5,000 people at Central Park's

SummerStage to support Qawwali 5 singer Abidha Parveen and Pakistani rock band

Junoon.

Socially and creatively, we became immersed in the burgeoning South Asian

party scene in New York. Competing crews would rent out different venues, usually

on holiday weekends when the mainstay club crowds were out of town and the clubs

had an extra day to fill. This was one of the only ways that South Asian and other

5 Qawwali, also spelled qavvali, in India and Pakistan, an energetic musical performance of Sufi
Muslim poetry that aims to lead listeners to a state of religious ecstasy-to a spiritual union
with Allah(God). The music was popularized outside of South Asia in the late 20th century, owing
largely to its promotion by the world-music industry. (Gorlinski,
https://www.britannica.com/art/qawwali)
13
non-dominant groups could get access to mainstream venues. We were hired to DJ

these events, pejoratively called Indian or Desi Parties. The competition extended to

securing choice spaces on coveted weekends. Meanwhile, the aim for many party

promoters, then, as it still is today, was to get a moneyed professional crowd in the

door. As Joy and I were gaining a reputation for playing good music, our bookings

increased but so did the directives on what to play. We were frequently told not to

play too much hip-hop or Bhangra, the styles of music I fell in love with as a

teenager.

In November of 1996, Joy and I were asked by Ethnic Folk Arts, 6 an

organization dedicated to presenting different immigrant art forms, to participate in a

program celebrating the range of Indian dance styles. We were there to represent

the Desi Party scene and its embrace of South Asian dance music and club culture.

Also on the bill was the Toronto-based band, Punjabi by Nature. Ethnic Folk Arts

tried to get the band a second gig since they were driving fourteen hours to perform

in New York City. They reached out to SOBs, Sounds of Brazil, a live music and

club venue that was known at the time to feature World Music. The bookers at

SOBs did not have any openings at the time but offered them a gig in February, the

slowest and coldest month, of the following year. Joy and I were hired to help

promote the night. We were paid in part by the number of people who brought

discount flyers to the door with our hand-marked initials.

That cold February night, the venue was packed and the booker at SOBs

asked us to come up with a concept for a monthly night. Since this was a music

venue and not an off-season nightclub, they were interested in the style of our music,

which fit SOB's brand as a place for global sounds. They were also one of the few

6 The organization is now called Center for Traditional Music and Dance.

14
clubs that embraced hip-hop at that time, as hip-hop was still seen as niche music

for a Black audience and was not yet part of mainstream radio play.

Joy and I had been feeling increasingly frustrated by the directives we got

from Indian party promoters to not play Black music as it was perceived to attract a

more unruly crowd and to not to play Bhangra music as it was associated with cab

drivers and seen to draw a lower-class/non-professional Punjabi crowd. So, when

SOBs asked Joy and me to come up with a concept for a monthly event we decided

on these two genres that we loved: hip-hop and Bhangra. The idea that certain

kinds of music would draw "undesirable" people was not a concern for SOBs. They

saw commercial potential in serving a new audience that liked to drink, fortifying the

revenues of a given night. They had experience with weekly events marketing to the

Haitian American community and did a lot programming that focused on New York's

many underserved immigrant and diaspora communities. So we conceived of

Basement Bhangra as a night where we would spin "Bhangra music with a hip-hop

sensibility."

The creative freedom to play whatever I wanted spoke to my commitment to

create an inclusive space. At this time, I was also active in South Asian community

organizations. Galvanized by a wave of violence by a group that called themselves

the "Dotbusters" as they targeted Indian immigrants in the Jersey City area in the

late 1980s, second-generation South Asian law students in New York City formed an

organization, Yaar. I found out about Yaar when they organized an action to

support Dr. Kaushal Saran, a victim of a hate crime whose attackers were on trial;

they were later acquitted. As a means to raise funds to continue the work for civil

rights education, I suggested we start hosting a monthly event. From an ad in the

7 A word that can be translated into "friend" in several South Asian language including Urdu, Hindi,
and Punjabi.

15
local arts paper, the Village Voice, I found a club space that could be rented out for

$500. This monthly night brought together different intersections of academics,

members of the LGBTQ community, and activists interested in social justice. This

moment in New York also witnessed the formation and rise of other South Asian

community organizations including the New York Taxi Workers Alliance, and Sakhi

for South Asian Women. 8

As luck would have it, Bally Sagoo, whose productions had sparked my

cousins and me to form a DJ crew several years earlier, had signed a worldwide

record deal with Columbia Records, a division of Sony Music. The label was looking

for places to promote his two albums, Rising from the East and Bollywood

Flashback. Our about-to-be launched club night was a perfect fit for Sagoo to get in

front of a South Asian club audience in New York. The first official Basement

Bhangra night was launched with him as the headliner.

The crowd that night comprised of Joy's and my social circles, record label

professionals, and New Yorkers who looked to SOBs as a place to discover and

listen to non-mainstream music. Also present were people from activist circles,

many of whom were of the LGBTQ community and/or in the academy. The next

twenty years of this monthly party became the base for my artistic career. Joy gave

up DJing in 2000 but, for me, it became a viable and fulfilling way to realize my

artistic self.

The voluminous press attention the party generated during its tenure

contributed to greater visibility for South Asians as part of American society and

culture. Its success was a springboard for many great creative opportunities in

sound design and remixing. It also provided a secure foundation to launch other club

8 Sakhi works to end gendered violence in South Asian communities. Iwas a summer intern there in
1992 and secured Sangam Sounds' 2 nd gig for their 5 th annual fundraiser.

16
nights like Mutiny, Bollywood Disco, and Lipstick Optional. Basement Bhangra

taught me how to create and hold space. The act of presenting the night

encompassed curating the performers, the design and production of physical and

digital flyers used for branding and information, projection of visuals that were mixed

live during the event, and the use of various DJ methods to disseminate sound to a

room of dancing bodies.

From 1997 to 2017, when Basement Bhangra had its final club night at SOBs,

DJing witnessed many technological and social transformations. The DJ booth was

perched out of view above the bar in 1997 and by the last night all DJ performances

were done from the stage in full view of the audience. The main media transitioned

from vinyl records and CDs to mp3 files, played off a computer via specially-modified

turntables and DJ software. Spreadable media 9 was also present here in the textual

reiterations through flyers, which were then incorporated into the video screens and

merchandise. This history is partly documented in media coverage, which was

consistent from the beginning of Basement Bhangra to its very end, when WNYC

Radio produced and aired a program reflecting on the event's twenty years.

Basement Bhangra is an example of what media scholar Henry Jenkins has

termed convergence culture. As Jenkins writes:

By convergence, I mean the flow of content across multiple media

platforms, the cooperation between multiple media industries, and the
migratory behavior of media audiences who would go almost anywhere
in search of the kinds of entertainment experiences they wanted.
Convergence is a word that manages to describe
technological, industrial, cultural, and social changes, depending on
who's speaking and what they think they are talking about. 10

9 Henry Jenkins. Spreadable Media: Creating Value and Meaning in a Networked Culture. (New York
City: NYU Press, 2013).
10 Henry Jenkins. "Welcome to Convergence Culture." Henry Jenkins (personal website), June 19,
2006, http://henryjenkins.orq/bloq/2006/06/welcome to convergence culture.html.

17
In the context of DJing, I would argue that "convergence is a word that manages to

describe technological, industrial, cultural, and social changes, depending on who's

[spinning] and what they think they are [dancing] about."

My career as a DJ was not limited to Basement Bhangra or club nights. My

DJ schedule included spinning at an array of events at different cultural institutions.

At last count, I have spun at over twenty-three museums; events for organizations,

both corporate and non-profit; music festivals; private events such a birthday parties,

celebrity weddings and related celebrations; and, even the White House under the

Obama Administration.

This notoriety led to an Artist-in-Residence appointment at NYU's

Asian/Pacific/American Institute. In return, I curated events and conversations and

became part of the creative and intellectual community of the Institute during the

tenure of the residency. I was given an opportunity to teach undergraduates for one

semester, which led to more academic teaching opportunities at the University. I was

also asked to do the sound design for Sarah Jones' one-woman play, which made its

way from off-Broadway to Broadway and eventually won a Tony Award. As DJ

Reborn states in her interview, working in theatre and other music-related arenas is

an extension of the DJ practice.

In 2009, I released DJ Rekha presents Basement Bhangra, a mix CD

comprised of existing and original tracks in the style of a set at the club night. The

album release led to a rigorous tour schedule the following year. Because the nature

of the music on the CD did not easily fit into existing popular mainstream music

genres (e.g. none of the tracks were in English), the gigs to promote the album were

not part of a geographically organized tour but a mix of festivals in venues that

crisscrossed the continental United States, Hawai'i and Canada. The tour was

18
lucrative but exhausting. With no built-in support or significant fan base outside of the

coasts, I would sometimes play to spare rooms. My management and booking agent

put the burden of promotion on me in places that had little or no South Asian people.

By 2012, 1 was let go from the booking relationship. I fired my management whose

strategy was simply to repeat what they had already done for a white male cis-

gender dubstep producer: build a grassroots fan base by playing events attended by

the jam-band and Burning Man communities; he eventually fired them too.

I reflect here on my career, in part to emphasize that I have been an active

practitioner with expertise in several arenas stemming from my DJ practice. Yet, one

consistent thread throughout the many times I have been asked to discuss my work,

from interviews for undergraduate term papers to a CNN artist profile to a music

industry panel, is the question: what is it like to be a "woman DJ"? The posing of the

question itself both reflects and contributes to the need to ask it. The assumption

embedded in this question about gender and this popular media practice is that there

is an inherent burden on women in their ability to successfully perform DJing. In the

course of my fieldwork for this project, I never ask this question. My intervention

here is to investigate the practice of DJs who are women and nonbinary people of

color, and not in contrast or opposition to cisgender male DJs.

19
THE DJ IN POPULAR CULTURE
The dominant metaphors for a disc jockey, or DJ, are many: beat conductor,

god, mastermind, and savior, to name a few. These rhetorical associations are

inherently masculine in their conception and imply a dramatic and patriarchal power

relationship between the DJ and the audience they serve. In this popular conception

of the DJ, the markers of, and route to, success are based in a path of autodidactic

learning, from practicing in a bedroom to breaking into a scene, followed by releasing

remixes and recorded music to an eventual significant financial reward and notoriety.

This dominant narrative relies on myths of perseverance and innate talent for

success.

Origin stories are powerful in defining the nature of a technological practice, a

genre, or a method of production. There are three widely accepted histories for what

we know to represent a DJ: 1) Kool Herc and the first hip-hop party in 1973, as

described by Jeff Chang in his seminal book, Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the

Hip-Hop Generation; 2) British selectors by way of radio shows and dance halls in

Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton's Last Night A DJ Saved My Life; and, 3) the

underground party scenes of New York, Detroit and Chicago most notably through

the Detroit Bellville Three, producers who became DJs credited with the

development of house and techno music, as chronicled in Simon Reynolds' Energy

Flash: A Journey Through Rave Music and Dance Culture." These histories are

1 Jeff Chang. Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation (New York: Picador, 2003);
Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton. Last Night A DJ Saved My Life (London: Grove Press, 1999);
Simon Reynolds. Energy Flash: A Journey Through Rave Music and Dance Culture (Berkeley: Soft
Skull Press, 2012 (reprint)); Tim Lawrence. Life and Death on a New York Dance Floor, 1980-1983.
(Durham, NC: Duke University Press, 2016) and Love Saves the Day: A History of American Dance
Music Culture, 1970-1979. (Durham, NC: Duke University Press, 2004).

20
also captured in Tim Lawrence's Love Saves the Day and Life and Death on a New

York Dance Floor.

These genre lanes of DJ culture take two well-worn paths- one of hip-hop

and the other of electronic music, the latter as the heir apparent to disco and house

music. Both of these divisions are coded with their own racial histories, biases, and

stereotypes that inevitably set up a limiting binary of black versus white music,

excluding other musical possibilities outside these genres. But, what these histories

have in common is that they rely upon and further the idea of male genius. Much of

the origin story described in each narrative is framed as a flash of divine inspiration

or divine happening. They present a male figure in a position of power, whether it is

in the ability to manipulate the devices, in the proficiency and knowledge of

employing studio techniques, or in having access to lucrative gigs.

The origin stories also rely upon the reference point of specific technique. In

Scratch, the 2001 documentary film about hip-hop DJs, Grand Wizard Theodore, a

notable early hip-hop DJ, is interviewed about his start. He states that he was

playing music late into the night when his mother complained about the noise. To

better control the sound, he held the record while the platter underneath was still

spinning. The manipulation of the vinyl record on a spinning turntable generated the

sound of the scratch, the movement of the stylus back and forth within the groove of

the disk.

DJing was, on the one hand, a form of resistance to high-end technologies

(such as high-fidelity turntables) and, on the other, a practice that created new

means of using these technologies for the performance of continuous music. DJs

manipulated the turntable platter to have precise control over when to start and stop

a record and used the turntables' pitch controls to change the speed of the record,

21
which in turn allowed DJs to line up and synchronize the records spinning

simultaneously of two turntables to cut smoothly between them and extend their

play. This practice of moving back and forth between tracks - using the technology

in a way it was not originally intended - produced and synthesized new continuous

sounds. These techniques led to innovations in hardware such as the DJ mixer.

They also influenced the production of a new music format, the 12-inch record,

which was designed for DJs to employ in the club to give them the power to "break"

new tracks.

The scratch has become a signifier of a mastery of skill that is vital to being a

"real" DJ, and yet it disrupts the flow of music. In electronic dance music, the marker

of mastery is not only a command over the DJ setup - the sound sources - but also

the ability to augment the musical performance by integrating production techniques.

This assumes the DJ must not only be good at spinning but also possess the skills of

a studio mastermind. Such a conflation of DJ and producer serves to devalue the

skills of the non-producer; it furthers the idea that extraordinary technical

competency is what is required of the role of "DJ". This in turn leads to assumptions

about authenticity or what makes a "real" DJ, which ultimately become a form of

gatekeeping that excludes different groups actively engaged in DJ practice. Other

representations of the masterful DJ focus on performance of fist-pumping in front of

huge crowds in a stadium atmosphere or in upscale clubs that cater to moneyed

clientele such as bottle-service consumers - an image that further devalues DJs

whose practice is focused on creating smaller, more intimate spaces that bring

together specific communities.

12 Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton. Last Night A DJ Saved My Life (London: Grove Press, 1999)

22
 The primary currency for success, at least in electronic dance music, is studio

knowledge and high-paying shows, neither of which have been easily accessible to

marginalized DJ communities. Male gatekeepers regulate the transfer of knowledge

and the relationships required to attain this success. This phenomenon is expressed

as a matter of fact in Jace Clayton's memoir about his DJ explorations.13 Clayton

travels across the globe with ease, finds music producers, and discovers different

musical styles that employ "Western" techniques. Communities of cisgender men

govern all of these spaces. In Clayton's memoir, queer people and women are never

presented in positions with agency or power.

Recent scholarship aims to expand the existing canon in order to document

the histories of DJ practice that falls outside the dominant narratives. In the past few

years, two books been published about Filipino DJ culture: Filipinos Represent: DJs,

Racial Authenticity and the Hip-hop Nation (2013) by American Studies scholar

Antonio T. Tiongson and Legions of Boom: Filipino American Mobile DJ Crews in the

San Francisco Bay Area (2015) by sociologist Oliver Wang.14 These texts expand

the scope of looking at DJing beyond a narrow black and white binary. As someone

who does not fit into that binary, I appreciate that these texts add an important

history. However, they remain texts that are largely about the lived experiences of

cisgender men.

On the other hand, media scholar Rebekah Farrugia's Beyond the Dance

Floor Female DJs, Technology, and Electronic Dance Music Culture (2012)15

13 Jace Clayton, Uproot: Travels in Twenty-First-Century Music and Digital Culture. (New York: Farrar,
Straus and Giroux, 2016).
14 Antonio T. Tiongson, Filipinos Represent: DJs, Racial Authenticity and the Hip-hop Nation.
Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 2013; Oliver Wang. Legions of Boom: Filipino American
Mobile DJ Crews in the San Francisco Bay Area. Durham, NC: Duke University Press, 2015.
15 Rebekah Farrugia, Beyond the Dance Floor: Female DJs, Technology, and Electronic Dance Music
Culture. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2012.

23
explores the process and practices employed by queer and women of color DJs in

defining artistic and economic success. However, her book limits the conversation to

a specific community of DJs and as a result does not include women of color. Its

focus on technology and electronic dance music does not account for the numerous

DJs that spin outside these genre constructions.

This project aims to contribute to documenting of the history and the present

of the lived experiences as well as the social and cultural context of queer and

people of color women and nonbinary artists. Its goal is to challenge the current

perceptions of the DJ and DJ practice. If the conceptions of DJing are centered on

the male figure of a DJ that is concerned with the actual materiality of performing the

act of DJing, then we should ask, what does a queer or feminist DJ practice look

like? My intervention here is to study the DJing practices of women, nonbinary and

queer DJs of color to understand, historicize, and archive this important media

practice today. How do these DJs redefine, subvert, or expand DJ practice through

1) their use of technologies; 2) their approach to their audiences and club spaces;

and, 3) their creation of economic models to sustain their art? What strategies are

utilized to counter challenges of operating in a male-dominated arena? What is

missing from current representations of DJ culture? The decision to only interview

women and nonbinary DJs was an intentional intervention in the documenting of this

media practice.

24
YOUTUBE AS A PEDAGOGICAL SITE

YouTube videos have become an important source of finding out how things

work. The metrics of YouTube in term of views and subscribers attest to the

popularity of the video being watched. 16 Typing "how to DJ" garnered the results of

Cole Plante's TedED Video, and the instructional video by Phil Harris, First 10

minutes on DJ Decks Beginner DJ lessons. I identified these two instructional

videos to examine what knowledge is being bestowed about how to learn how to DJ

and by whom. Harris' video promises a quick and thorough starting point to the craft.

The second video comes from the TEDi Organization. These videos are routinely

viewed millions of times and have an inherent credibility. The format is accessible

and familiar. The last visual media I analyzed is a full-length documentary entitled,

Scratch. At the time of its release in 2002, there were few films that addressed the

craft of DJing. There have since been more documentaries seminal to the

understanding of DJ culture and practice, but the film still holds up as one that

singularly focuses on the craft and the DJ practice.

These three pieces of media further my contention that there is a dominant

gendered perspective on DJ craft and knowledge. Like many contemporary media

practices, such as digital filmmaking and podcasting, practitioners range from

amateur to professional. Who is seen as authentic is linked to the perceptions of

who is seen as a qualified professional.

16
Jean Burgess and Joshua Green. YouTube: Online Video and Participatory Culture. New York:
Polity, 2009.
25
 = Youbube how to dj

First 10 minutes on DJ Decks I Beginner DJ lessons .com

902,299 views li 13K A 2I/t , SHAHI - SAV

26
 L--4

= YouTube how to dj

Getting started as a DJ: Mixing, mashups and digital turntables - Cole Plante
1, 6/1,085 Views

27
RESEARCH METHODS
The research methods employed in this project were ethnographic fieldwork,

including interviews accompanied by a short demographic survey and site visits to

three parties. I interviewed 13 New York City-based women and nonbinary DJs of

color, many of whom I have worked with and others who I found through a snowball

method. Eleven interviews were one on one, and I also conducted one roundtable

with Rimarkable, DJ Selly, Zeemuffin, and myself. I also recorded my own story

guided by the questions that I asked the other subjects about their musical histories,

artist trajectories, physical methods of performance, experiences with safety,

relationship with mentoring, and roles in curation. In my interviews I actually don't

ask my subjects what it's like to be a woman DJ. I just asked questions inquiring

about their, background, their DJ practice, techniques, community and audience, and

economy. These conversations generated over 20 hours of recorded audio and

over 150 pages of text.

The interviews and site visits were conducted over a period of 18 months.

When possible they were done in person, one on one, but DJ Laylo and Twelve45

were done via telephone, and JADALAREIGN's interview was conducted via Skype.

Despite not being in the same physical space for those interviews, the intimacy and

depth of discussion was rich. The roundtable conversation with Rimarkable, DJ

Selly, Zeemuffin and myself took place in a Manhattan recording studio. The small

room we were in created an intimate vibe and truly open conversation.

All interviewees completed a short online survey, which was used to collect

personal demographic information as well as how long and frequently they perform

and what hardware and software they employ. I also visited the sites of performance

for DJ Uskha, DJ Laylo, and Rimarkable. Additionally, I bring in years of knowing

28
many of the subjects and prior experience of having been to many of their events

and even past experience of DJing with several of them.

29
MEDIA INTERVENTION- Podcast: From the Decks
In support of this written text, I have created a short-form podcast, From the

Decks, with audio content from my interviews. From the Decks is a podcast of five

episodes that are approximately ten minutes each. In each episode, I narrate an

introduction providing my background and context before turning to interview

footage. By hearing the artists speak, their narratives are activated. The podcast

format not only provides information about the various findings, it inserts the artists

and their sounds into the research. The fifth and final episode in the series is my

reflection on the research conducted here as well as a discussion of my own DJ

experience.

The length of the episodes allows for a quick but intimate auditory experience

so that the listener can home in on key points discussed by the subject. My

introductory narration situates me as well as the context of the show: I am a

nonbinary woman of color DJ, with many years of industry and artistic experience

and that, as a part of my Masters of Comparative Media Studies degree at MIT, I am

capturing, acknowledging, and giving space to the stories of other women and

nonbinary DJs of color. My intention in embracing the short-form podcast is to offer a

glimpse into each the interviews that I conducted over the course of my research;

each podcast episode is meant to direct the listener to a full-length interview

transcript, included in this thesis. The transcripts form the beginnings of a new

archive of DJ experience - and of critical reflection- that collectively provide a more

nuanced understanding of the current practice of DJing. The initial release of these

five episodes will be on Soundcloud in playlist form so that the episodes can be

listened to individually or continuously, in any order.

30
The episodes appear in the playlist as follows:

1. Episode 1, DJ Ayes Cold illuminates the struggle of breaking into a male-

dominant producers circle as well as her thoughts on the overuse of

scratching from her male DJ colleagues.

2. Episode 2, DJ Reborn talks in detail about her involvement in mentoring

and the skills necessary to teach DJing, as well as strategies for keeping

the peace as the opening DJ for a notoriously tardy hip-hop superstar.

3. Episode 3, Rimarkable describes how the Orlando Pulse Nightclub

shooting in a queer nightclub led to the creation of an intergenerational

community day dance party called Joy.

4. Episode 4, DJ Uskha discusses her strategies for activating the dancefloor

and the specific strategies she uses to transition a disparate style of what

she dubs "migrant music."

5. Episode 5, DJ Rekha, here I reflect on how the process of doing this

research has affected me. I also talk about why I don't ask certain

questions, the frustrations of typecasting, and what community means to

me.

This podcast project will exist outside the academy in a format that has itself has

become a popular form of media consumption. Initially seen as an extension of the

radio format, podcasting has become its own formidable medium. Apple, Inc.'s

decision to integrate podcast offerings in their Apple store in 2005 furthered its

accessibility. But, podcasts are no longer just relegated to the Apple Store; they can

be distributed through any number of apps and embedded in existing platforms. 17

17 "The Infinite Dial 2018." Edison research, March 6, 2019, https://www.edisonresearch.com/infinite-

dial-2019/; Ellen Gamerman. "Listen Up, This Podcast Will Just Take a Minute," The Wall Street
Journal (Washington D.C.), last updated January 3, 2019, https://www.ws*.com/
31
32
RESEARCH FINDINGS

The histories and trajectories of each DJ I interviewed was unique, as was the

path that led them to embrace DJing. The very idea of becoming a DJ was often not

available to my respondents until an external suggestion or circumstance

encouraged them to embrace this possibility. However, each practitioner worked

relentlessly to perfect and master their craft. In my respondents' eyes, the definition

of "mastery"; what is valued as mastery; even what is understood as the "craft" of

DJing are all subjective and personal. Guided by my questions, the topics spilled

into many arenas but to distill the findings I have categorized them into three albeit

broad and sometimes overlapping themes of: 1) technology and techniques; 2)

space; and, 3) labor. While not given its own sections, concepts of community and

gender permeate the discussion throughout these themes.

Technology and Techniques

After 2011 there were a lot more queer and women DJs, and I would hear
men say, there are a lot more women DJs because it's easier. You can just hit
sync... There's still a craft. For me, there's a craft around how you create a
space, how you sustain a party, how you sustain a vibe with music in a way
where you're not just hitting Play and then Start.
-DJ Uskha

Whether analog, digital, or some combination, DJing is inherently a

technology-based practice. Conceptually, the physical equipment is designed to

facilitate the control of sound, but access to knowledge about how to use the

equipment and assumptions about who has the necessary aptitude both present

barriers to women and nonbinary DJs. A DJ's use of technology often becomes used

as a marker of authenticity or validation, and skill and mastery, or lack thereof.

As DJ Uskha states above, in her experience, the recent increase of queer

33
and women of color DJs was seen by men to be the result of the rise of the sync

functionality in DJ software and hardware. This assumption breeds a misconception

of what the sync function does in the software. Like many features that have been

incorporated in the evolving technologies, the sync assists in mixing but it cannot

automate the process. The sync adjusts the speed and lines up the musical key.

Decisions around the selection of what song to play and when to start the track as

well as control over other aspects of the sound of the track still require the DJ to be

engaged and present to execute the mix.

DJing started with turntables and vinyl records. To spin a record is to have as

much control over it as possible. When you start playing it, there is a delay in when

the sound is heard. Accounting for when it is released from the hand holding it to

when the stylus plays over the groove to generate sound is a fundamental part of a

DJ's understanding of timing. In order to mix, you have to determine the speed of

the record to line it up with the next one you want to play. These are things that are

taken for granted today, like how much time is remaining on a track when listening to

a song. With vinyl, the total time of the track or the track per side are listed with a

single track time, but as it is playing, knowing how much time is left is a skill built

over time. Newer methods of deploying music display the information but a skilled

understanding of what to do with this information is still necessary for an effective

mix.

In their prescient 2005 article, "Tracking The DJs: Vinyl Records, Work, and

the Debate over New Technologies," Farrugia and Swift assert that the practical

implications of technological advances are often misunderstood:

Reservations about adopting new DJ technologies often stem from the fact
that advances in digital music technology threaten the existing order of E/DM
DJ culture, an order maintained by numerous gate-keeping practices,

34
 including the ideological enforcement of standards for discerning the value
and authenticity of certain DJ practices.
-Farrugia and Swift, Tracking The DJs, 3118

This article considers the impending implications of Final Scratch, a software

interface that replaces the need for physical records and CDs. Final Scratch would

evolve into Serato, which became widely adopted as DJs switched from vinyl and

compact disc to the use of digital files mediated by the software. Farrugia and Swift

observe the paradox of progress or at least the dangers of a disruption of order.

With many of the women I spoke with, access to the physical gear itself functioned to

preserve the (cis-male dominated) order.

Another theme that came up in the interviews was the dominance within

mainstream DJ practice of the technique of "scratching." In the roundtable

conversation with DJ Selly, Zeemuffin, and myself, we watched Herbie Hancock's

1984 performance with DJ Grand Mixer DST, which I showed to get the discussion

staL LteU. AtIMerwards, FaI 1 rkle F\dIV I rC;alle:.

But I do remember when scratching became popular. It being an art form, it

became like the connotation of what a DJ was.

That followed me when I started DJing. I wasn't a hip-hop DJ. I was a woman
DJ coming out and it was like, "Wow you don't scratch?" Or, "You don't do this
turntablism so you must not be a DJ." That kind of thing went on. Scratching
or turntablism had a direct impact on the connotation of what a DJ was.
Being from Detroit and Chicago, Rimarkable's musical history was rich with

exposure to many styles of dance music, rock and roll, as well as Top 40 radio hits.

Her beginnings as a mobile DJ trained her to be versed in several genres as well as

to be technically adept in setting up sound systems for her gigs. Yet she saw that a

DJ was often defined by her/their ability to scratch, or employ turntablist techniques.

This has happened to me countless times at gigs when my DJ booth was in close

18 Rebekah Farrugia and Thomas Swiss. "Tracking the DJs: Vinyl Records, Work, and the Debate
over New Technologies." Journal of Popular Music Studies 17, no. 1 (2005): 30-44.

35
proximity to the audience. Someone will inevitably come up to me and make the

scratching gesture, as if to move an imaginary record in a back and forth motion.

The request is sometimes direct: "Hey, can you scratch?" Here, the implication is

that if I am a real DJ, I will know how to scratch and I will prove it.

The issue of access to technology is one that that recurred throughout my

interviews. DJ technology is hard to access, but many of the DJs I interviewed had

some avenue to technology or an established person or DJ to facilitate access for

them. JADALAREIGN and Twelve45 each began spinning after the opening of

Scratch Academy and other DJ schools. They were able to enroll in school and

benefit not only from having access to a place to practice but also from the

community created in those spaces. Men often managed these schools, but they

also found female mentors in those sites as well as a vibrant community.

Experienced DJs also named pressures to keep up with and master the

changing technology. Technology is always changing, often rapidly. There is a need

to have a sense of fluidity around the technology. For example, when you are at a

venue, you need to be prepared to perform whether there is a turntable setup or any

number of combinations of gear. The younger DJs stated that they have been

gravitating towards DJing with USB sticks, which makes their physical labor

negligible. However, this technology strategy requires a lot of creative labor in

advance of each gig.

Space and Identity

Many of the DJs I interviewed were specific and intentional in investing in the

kinds of spaces they created. The importance of, desire for, and necessity to create

space was something that came up frequently n our conversations. While no one

36
can guarantee a safe space, Rimarkable, DJ Uskha, and I are all DJs, event

producers and curators who are invested in creating intentional spaces. I am

creating community space here in this thesis project not just by analyzing the

ethnographic fieldwork but by creating a podcast based on the interview content and

including the complete transcripts for further study.

Space encompasses the dance floor, the area of the DJ booth where the DJ

set up is located, the full venue, the vibe that is created, and the larger space of

community. Such community is often of particular importance to members of

immigrant diasporas. As diaspora refers to a scattering of people outside a

homeland, the DJ's selection and performance of music in a physical venue can

function as a means to collect, gather and recreate an imagined homeland - to

create a new space of connection and community.

The scattering of diaspora that is mostly obviously visible is among first,

second, and third-generation immigrants from their origin to the United States. Yet,

there are other formations of diaspora, including internally within the boundaries of

the nation. Twelve45 brings diasporic knowledge with her when she DJs and invokes

it upon her audience. For example, she reflects:

In New York you have black people from everywhere. It's different. I'm
saying, this guy has the reggae, soca, the rap, the RnB. No one told me about
this. I live in New York and I feel like I never heard Jersey club or Baltimore
club and I was like, What the world? Y'all right there.. So it was a beautiful
experience music-wise.

Similarly, DJ Laylo articulates this idea when she says:

Everything, every party, or even residencies, or any long-standing things that

I've done have come from a place of wanting to create something that didn't
exist... One of the things that resonated, and why people would call on me,
was that I would play hip-hop and dancehall but I would also play Latin
music and I would also play house. There was a range of music that was all
Black music but they usually didn't get all played in the same space.

37
For DJ Laylo, her act of gathering was about disseminating different musics but, in

doing so, she also addresses the need based on the lack of space where she lives.

She continues:

There wasn't much uptown, at all. Everything, you had to come downtown.
Brooklyn, that wasn't even the kind of nightlife destination that it is today.
Everything was downtown and we wanted to do something. I'm feeling a little
fuckin tired of dealing with the E train... I lived in the Bronx already but [a
friend] was like, we should do something in El Barrio because it's accessible
to the Bronx. It felt like this could be an uptown gathering, a watering hole if
you will. We were already part of a community of activities and ideas. We
wanted something that had that kind of feel to it, a space that was reflective of
our political values too.

Seeing this necessity for a space of shared values and musical experiences

was the impetus for DJ Laylo's club night, A Party Called Rosie Perez.ht, A Party

Called Rosie Perez. Originally located Uptown and now in its fourth year, the party

has taken place in a variety of venues and boroughs, and in conjunction with other

club nights.

In November 2017, 1 attended The Rub, a Brooklyn based hip-hop centered

dance night with a male-dominated DJ crew at the Bell House in Brooklyn. The

Brooklyn mainstays packed the larger room, which has a capacity of 500. In the

front room, DJ Laylo and co-DJ Sucio represented their party, A Party Called Rosie

Perez. DJ Laylo, who noted that she would often be compared to the actress in all-

White spaces, and her choice of naming the party after Rosie Perez was to reclaim

the comparison, says:

I do identify as a black woman, as a Dominican woman and as a New

Yorker; those are the biggest parts of my identity. In many ways, Rosie
Perez represents that ability to be Afro-Latina, to be a New Yorker, to be from
the hood, and be unapologetic about it. And to be authentic about it, and forge
all kinds of new pathways for herself - not in spite of who she was but
because of who she was. It's perfect that the party is named after her.

Musically, A Party Called Rosie Perez represents the music from the New

York City Afro-Latinx diaspora but it also incorporates various styles of New York

38
City dance genres. By being in the room adjacent to the mostly White audience of

the Rub, DJ Laylo widened the musical scope of the night. A one point, she spun a

1994 track, "Love and Happiness," by River Ocean featuring the percussion of Salsa

legend, Tito Puente, and Puerto Rican born, Bronx raised, Latina vocalist, India.

This song was a staple of 1990s New York dance floors, including the Desi parties I

attended and DJed. Not quite in the repertoire of the Rub, DJ Laylo playing this track

took on a different meaning by exposing a new audience to this music. She also

brought immense joy to the non-White patrons in the room, including me as I was

transported to a time when this song was a staple in my DJ sets. Anyone listening to

a DJ spinning brings their expectations, which are filled with their own personal

histories and nostalgias. The DJ taps into this and it informs what they play.

In the summer of 2018, I made a trip to Cafe Erzulie, tucked beneath the

elevated J train in Bushwick, a neighborhood now associated with White hipster

Brooklyn. I felt a calming energy in the crowd at Joy, a Sunday day party started by

Rimarkable and Ryan of Brooklyn Boihood. Notably, the space was Black, queer and

intergenerational. Space creation can have healing powers. As Rimarkable explains

the origins of the event, she says:

The Orlando shootings happened around Pride season, during Pride

month. I reached out to Ryan. I was at the Allied Media Conference with
Ryan, who is the founder of Bklyn Boihood. We've been dear friends for years. I was
like, yo we need to throw a party for our people for Pride. We just got to heal,
we need some love, we got to hug it out. We need to be around each
other, you know." Quite frankly, everybody doesn't go to the city. Everybody
doesn't want to go to the city for Pride. We need to throw one. I want to do this
party and I want to call it Joy. It's going to be a cute day party, a little tea
party because people are missing that, and this younger generation doesn't
know about tea parties.

I wanted to create a safe space for queer and trans people of color to
come together, for us to be around each other. We feel safe. We're not
subconsciously antagonized by the threat of whiteness. Sometimes it is very
threatening, especially when you're already triggered or you're already feeling
hurt or you're already feeling pain. I wanted to create a place where people

39
felt safe to be themselves and to celebrate our own traditions. We're playing
Spades and we're doing the Electric Slide, playing our music, you know!

Labor

The reduction of physical vinyl and the use of turntables as a primary

instrument in some ways has reduced the physical labor of DJing. My interviewees

spoke about other dimensions of the labor of DJing. Now, the burden of labor is in

the prepping and organizing of music for a particular gig. The paradox of music being

readily available digitally is that it is hard to find if it is not in the genre of mainstream

music. Additionally, adaptability or being flexible to deal with a variety of set-ups

requires knowledge of and preparedness to work with different hardware and

software systems. The physical demands of standing on your feet for several hours

and, in some cases, carrying gear to the venue is part of the labor that is not

recognized.

Lastly, to build a viable art practice, some women worked at gigs that were not

creatively motivated but lucrative, so they subsidized the ones that paid less.

Teaching, working in theater, curating, filmmaking, sound collaging and design are

examples of the other kinds of paid work my interviews do.

In the case of DJ Shilpa her mobile wedding business subsidized her creative pursuit

of being a club DJ under the moniker of DJ Scarlett. JADALAREIGN was actively

involved in curation and setting up workshops for aspiring DJs, producers and event

creators. Twelve45 worked with a dance company providing sound design, which is

a job DJ Reborn has had in many different circumstances. Rimarkable also stated

that corporate gigs paid for the less lucrative, but more artistically rewarding ones.

The thread here was that to build a viable living with DJing as the center, diversifying

the nature of the gigs and supplementing them with other types of work was
40
necessary.

With respect to the labor of DJing itself, DJ Ushka discusses the process of

making a mix, and the labor and intentionality that goes into it. She talks about the

work that happens before the actual physical act of DJing begins. This labor is

necessary to be able to make decisions while DJing that respond to the vibe and the

flow of the dance floor. DJ Ushka states:

For me, making a mix is an art project in and of itself. You can tell a
whole story and you have a little bit more time to think about it. It's a whole
research process: what tracks are you going to put on this mix, who, who's
producing what. It feels to me when I'm making a mix, it's
like an essay when I'm in the club.

For an hour gig, I've spent three to four hours prepping, putting in cue points.
Acquiring music is a constant process. That happens every week. That
happens when you're out and you hear something and you're like, oh what's
that.

You have to think about audience and you have to think about vibe. And
so in the club I may have a sense... a lot of people who aren't DJs will be like,
what's your first song? I get it. What's your first song? What do you know how
to plan? I'm like, you don't. You just have to feel the vibe. I always get there
at least an hour before my set because you have to be able to hear what
that person before you has been playing, what people in the room are doing, in
order to play your sound.

I play a lot of stuff that I like but I always play like a dancer. I play stuff that I
wanna dance to. I play a lot of like bass music. I always fixate on the two or
three people who I can tell are really good dancers. A lot of my flow is based
on their flow because I can see what they're into and it feeds my energy, so a
lot of my sets are impromptu. I'm basically I'm deciding in the moment what to
play.

Another issue that interviewees brought up when asked about the labor of

DJing concerned safety. This issue is always a concern when you are in

proximity to an audience, but what about when you are in a large arena with fifty

thousand people who are impatiently waiting for the headliner. DJ Reborn

relayed an experience that she had on tour, which is also a common situation

when in a venue where people are consuming alcohol. DJ Reborn recalls:

41
 On one of these tour dates recently, Miss Hill was super late and I was out
there [on stage] for a really long time. People were getting really upset, and I
was like, it just would take one person throwing something at me for it to get
wild in here. People were restless. I had a tinge of, Mmhmm! If she doesn't
show up right now, I don't know what's gonna happen.

DJing, a lot of times, is in environments where there are lots of men. There
sometimes can just be that twinge or that feeling. Especially if people can get
to your DJ booth or wherever you're DJing. It doesn't always feel so good to
be that vulnerable, which is why DJ booths are preferable. So people can't
necessarily just walk right up to you. With drunk people, fights break out. Shit
starts getting thrown and you're like, Oh, I better duck under these turntables.

The situation that DJ Reborn discusses is potentially volatile. The burden of

maintaining safety is not only that of personal safety but of the space itself.

In our exchange, I probe a little further and ask if DJ Reborn thinks her gender

impacts how she gets paid. Her response touches on the concern of economics

which here is wrapped up with gender position. She notes:

Absolutely my gender has played a role. We live in patriarchy. We live in a

sexist society and oppression and white supremacy is just real. I'm a black
woman DJ. People are going to try to test you. I've been tested and that's
another reason why I don't think I'm interested in doing my own events.
Dealing with that side of things of having to logistically deal with anything from
getting my money to just logistical stuff. I'm not into it. Venues and promoters
have tried to not pay, or promised one thing and did something else. It's tricky
sometimes only because you can do everything in your power to articulate,
solidify details, all that stuff, and if at the end of the night somebody comes to
you with empty hands, you've already done your work. So a lot of that is
around doing it long enough, and having hopefully a strong enough reputation
that anything coming in is actually reputable, and you're not going to have to
fight for your money.

42
Conclusion
Doing this project has been deeply personal for me. I forgot how much shared

history I had with many of these women. Some of them I knew and some of them I

met through the snowball method. But, the women I know also had trouble recalling

their own histories. More than once I heard, "That's a good idea. I should write that

down." Especially for DJs who started pre-smart phone, memories and

documentation was not always easy to recall.

The point of me doing of this work, I hope, is that if someone was to come and

examine DJing as a cultural practice, we have a text and archive that is reflective of

what is happening in the experience. If we were to consult existing media of videos

and written text, we wouldn't get an accurate picture. The act of doing this research

made the women I talk to consider their own histories by adding vital knowledge

about this ubiquitous media practice.

The tension between what is premeditated and what is in the moment is what

makes DJing a practice that cannot be automated. Streaming services attempt to

organize content and anticipate what a listener may want to hear, but as we have

seen, so much happens prior to and during the performance. Technology can add

tools and information, and techniques can be honed to perfect the execution of

physical movements of the media that being played, but ultimately maintaining the

flow and creating the vibe is what is at the core of what a successful DJ does. From

speaking with my interviewees, learning about the depth of their engagement with

the gear, the amount of labor put forth, and the joy they bring to others is all part of

what goes into awareness of this a cultural practice within the contemporary arena of

media and communication.

43
Bibliography
Brewster, Bill and Frank Broughton. Last Night A DJ Saved My Life: The History of
the Disc Jockey. New York: Grove Press, 1999

Burgess, Jean and Joshua Green. YouTube: Online Video and Participatory Culture.
New York: Polity, 2009.

Chang, Jeff. Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation.
New York: Picador, 2005.

Chinen, Nate. "Two Turntables and a Keytar: The Night Herbie Hancock Rocked the
Grammys." The New York Times (New York, NY), February 8, 2016.

Clayton, Jace. Uproot: Travels in 2 1 st Century Music and Digital Culture. New York:
Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2016).

DJ Ayes Cold, interview with the author, Fall 2018

DJ Laylo, interview with the author, Spring 2019

DJ Reborn, interview with the author, Fall 2018

DJ Seely, interview with the author as part of a roundtable discussion, Fall 2018

DJ Shilpa, interview with the author, Fall 2018

DJ Ushka, interview with the author, Fall 2018

Farrugia, Rebekah. Beyond the Dance Floor: Female DJs, Technology, and
Electronic Dance Music Culture. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2012.

Farrugia, Rebekah and Thomas Swiss. "Tracking the DJs: Vinyl Records, Work, and
the Debate over New Technologies." Journal of Popular Music Studies 17, no.
1 (2005): 30-44.

Gamerman, Ellen. "Listen Up, This Podcast Will Just Take a Minute." The Wall
Street Journal (Washington D.C.). last updated January 3, 2019,
https://www.wsj.com/

Gitelman, Lisa. Always Already New: Media, History, and the Data of Culture.
Cambridge, MA: MIT Press, 2008.

Gorlinski, Virginia. "Qawwali." Brittanica.com. Accessed May 13, 2019.

https://www.britannica.com/art/qawwali

Hall, Stuart. "Notes on Deconstructing the Popular." In People's History and

Socialist Theory. Ed. Raphael Samuel (London: Routledge, 1981), 227- 240.

44
Harris, Phil. "First 10 minutes on DJ Decks: Beginner DJ Lessons." Posted
2015. Phil Harris, 11:37. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLYYvSy35U

"The Infinite Dial 2018." edison research, March 6, 2019,

https://www.edisonresearch.com/infinite-dial-2019/

JADALAREIGN, interview with the author, Spring 2019

Jenkins, Henry. Spreadable Media: Creating Value and Meaning in a Networked

Culture. (New York City: NYU Press, 2013).

----. "Welcome to Convergence Culture." Henry Jenkins (personal

website), June 19, 2006,
http) //henryjenkins.orq/bloq/2006/06/welcome to convergence culture

Lawrence, Tim. Life and Death on a New York Dance Floor, 1980-1983. Durham,
NC: Duke University Press, 2016.
-----. Love Saves the Day: A History of American Dance Music Culture,
1970-1979. Durham, NC: Duke University Press, 2004.

Plante, Cole. "Getting Started as a DJ: Mixing, mashups and digital turntables."
Posted 2014. TED-Ed Video, 10:36.
https://www. outube.com/watch?v=nthpwCMrhQw

Reynolds, Simon. Energy Flash: A Journey Through Rave Music and Dance
Culture. New York: Soft Skull Press, 2012.

Rimarkable, interview with the author, individual and as part of a roundtable

discussion, Fall 2018

Scratch, directed by Doug Pray (2002; New York: Palm Pictures)

Tiongson, Antonio T. Filipinos Represent: DJs, Racial Authenticity and the Hip-hop
Nation. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 2013.

Twelve45, interview with the author, Spring 2019

Wang, Oliver. Legions of Boom: Filipino American Mobile DJ Crews in the San
Francisco Bay Area. Durham, NC: Duke University Press, 2015

Zeemuffin, interview with the author as part of a roundtable discussion, Fall 2018

45
APPENDIX

46
Podcast Transcripts:

From the Decks

47
 Podcast Transcript

From the Decks: Introduction

48
 From he Decks: Introduction

Rekha: Welcome to From the Decks, a short but powerful podcast about the
experiences of women and non-binary DJs of color. My name is DJ
Rekha. I've spun every type of DJ set you can imagine from, sweet
sixteenths in suburban cellars, to the Women's March for a million
people, to the White House-the Obama White House.

After 20 years of running a club night in New York City called Basement
Bhangra, in 2017 I enrolled to get a masters of Comparative Media
Studies at M.I.T. When people find out you're a DJ they often make that
scratching gesture: "wiki wiki!". You know, you put your hand out and
pretend you're moving an imaginary record back and forth. But DJing is
so much more than that. Some representations of DJs are turntable
wizards or fist pumping godlike figures at festivals. These dominant
depictions don't show what a DJ really does, and it leaves out the
voices and experiences of me and my comrades: other women and
non-binary DJs of color. I'm here to take you on a journey. Ok, it's a
quick ride, but you'll get to hear firsthand the histories and insights of
these phenomenal spinsters. In talking to them, I'm capturing
knowledge and giving space to their stories. These episodes are short
glimpses into their lives. Our full conversations are part of my written
thesis entitled, Last Night a DJ Queered My Life: Disrupting the
Mythologies of a Critical Popular Media Practice. Thanks for listening to
my homework.

49
 Podcast Transcript

From the Decks: DJ Ayes Cold

50
 From the Decks: DJ Ayes Cold

Rekha: This first episode of the series starts with Ayes Cold. I first met Aisha
Chugh a.k.a. D.J. Ayes Cold in 2016. Our paths crossed several times
that year, first when she was DJing for drummer and electronic artist
Madame Gandhi as part of Red Baraat's Festival of Colors Tour. We
then DJed at a few times at the DC Club Tropicalia where she had a
monthly residency. I booked her to DJ the after party for a Celebrate
Brooklyn show where I presented a special edition of Basement
Bhangra in Brooklyn. She was also part of the last Basement Bhangra
show at SummerStage in August 2017. Growing up Ayes Cold moved
around a lot, spending some years in the United States but also in
various cities in India, including going to nightclubs in Bangalore at the
age of 16 where she would sometimes bump into her mom. After
college, she solidified her DJ career in DC hosting an array of club
nights. Here Ayes Cold talks about community, turntablism, her specific
methods of working the dance floor and the elusive producers firewall.
We recorded this interview at the Splice office in Manhattan where she
recently acquiesced to a day job, as an intervention of self-care after
the rigors of a full-time gigging schedule. Let's take a listen.

Ayes Cold: I've never really been a part of crews, and I do think that a lot of the
queer scene, It's a very chosen family oriented model, community
oriented model, and I've always rolled solo dolo.

It's really how I am. It's not necessarily a rejection of community as a

necessary thing. But I always rode solo to things and so I did not
necessarily have a place in those scenes. So much of those portions of
the scene were defined first and foremost by creating community. And
then second by music.

Music was not necessarily the glue or like entry point into the center or
focal point of those scenes, even though music was definitely
51
 something celebrated. It never felt like it was ever about the craft to me.
It was about this feeling of creating a sense of community on the dance
floor, you know, and playing the songs that people could sing along to
and everyone known and loved. A lot of cumbia and bachata,
connecting musical traditions with other cultural traditions in the various
diasporas that would be in the room which was a beautiful thing.

But my approach was a little different.

Music for me built community in unexpected ways with people who I

wouldn't necessarily have expected would be in my musical family.
Music connected me with people who perhaps I would have otherwise
not really given the time of day, based around just our own insularity
around who we hang out with and who we identify with cultural and
social level. DJ Underdog and Native Son, two of my comrades and
early supporters, they were using the Pioneer DDJ series controllers, a
couple different kinds and I saw them using them and I was like, "These
are great!"

You've got pads that you can use as hot cue and like rolls and create
loops, and you also have JAG wheels which give you a little bit of a
more traditional D.J. feel, and two guys who I looked up to were using
them, and they were very portable and easy to set up. That was my
format for at least up until 2017, even.

I need to be able to rock on whatever equipment the club has. So I got

myself a Serato box, Serato control vinyls.

Rekha: So did you have turntables home?

Ayes Cold: I now do, but at the time I didn't.

Rekha: Ok, but you had that stuff in preparation. And did you learn how to use
turntables in Serato?
52
Ayes Cold: Yes I did. Yeah, but mainly self-taught. Some advice from friends, but I
didn't have two turntables. I had one turntable actually, so there was a
time where I was going instant doubles. There are gigs that I did just
with one turntable.

Rekha: We've all known. Mostly because the other turntable's broken

Ayes Cold: Yeah, I've had massive calibration issues with different turntables at
different clubs. I've had so many nights where I've just had to Uber
home and get my controller, in DC especially.

Janky-ass turntables. So it kind of got me thinking about other ways to

be versatile. And then I got my hands on a pair of CDJ-850s.

Rekha: Do you scratch when you play?

Ayes Cold: You know what, so there was a moment where I definitely was teaching
myself different scratch technique. Across the different gears that I've
practiced on over the years. So not at one point, but there were
consistent attempts. And I just never felt turntableism, as an approach
to DJing was really my initial point of interest, or entry point into DJing,
and I really felt like I was definitely getting a lot of advice and
unsolicited advice from other DJs to teach myself how to become more
of a turntableist.

Rekha: Who was giving you this advice?

Ayes Cold: Mostly male DJs, turntableist friends, some really nice guys, but
narrow-minded in the sort of "real DJ", you know that, have you seen
that term used?

Rekha: Please Girl, I've been doing this for 26 years. Those real DJs, do they
use scratching when they DJ a lot? Do you know?
53
Ayes Cold:- Yeah definitely. Yeah, they were they were deaf.

Rekha: Were they doing open format parties, or were they doing parties where
people appreciated it?

Ayes Cold: They were doing open format sets.

Rekha: They were scratching in it? And people liked it?

Ayes Cold: You know what, that's actually a good question. Some of these DJs
would play for hip hop crowds and they were just so confident in their
skills that they didn't really care. And I think in some ways the
psychology of that made other people kind of not really critique them.
There is this attitude which is like, "I'm a DJ. Naturally I'm a turntableist.
Naturally you want to hear me interrupt every couple of bars with some
scratch action." It's interesting, right, because it's so subjective. Yes
scratches can sound dope, but at the same time, I don't feel a desire to
hear scratching on the mixes that I listen towhen I'm on dance floors.
But I definitely have been in rooms with people who really, really-
mostly men-who really look up to it as a way of manipulating sound,
and a nod to an old school culture that's dying, and so there's a
masculinity, there's is a machismo around it, and there's this notion of
preserving traditions that are under assault.

Rekha: What's the tradition under assault?

Ayes Cold: It's turntableism, you know. It's real hip-hop, which I never really saw
myself as. That wasn't really what I felt when I wanted to set as my task
or my challenge when I started DJing. My task initially or my challenge
was always the blends, mixes, telling a story, going on a journey. The
curation side.

Rekha: The curation.

54
Ayes Cold: Absolutely. Personally, I want to feel like, even if your emphasis is on
curation you want to engage your hardware in a way that enhances that
curation. For me what enhances my curation are the spaces are
transitions. Transitions are very important to me, and I think transitions
give you the opportunity. You can create your own beats with a
transition.

Rekha: Do you produce music?

Ayes Cold: Music production is a boys club. You can enter that boys club as a boy,
pretty early in life, if that's something you're interested in, at the age of
16. So a lot of producers who we know have been making music since
they were 16.

Rekha: As an artist, what is your main medium? Is a DJing or is it...?

Ayes Cold: Right now I would say it's still DJing, until I actually have evidence of
actually being a producer.

Rekha: Whoah, ok. Well we'll be ready for it.

Ayes Cold: Hell yes, I appreciate that. Stay Ready!

55
 Podcast Transcript

From the Decks: DJ Reborn

56
 From the Decks: DJ Reborn

Rekha: This installment features Robyn Rodgers, aka D.J. Reborn. I can't
remember exactly when I met her, but we've known each other for over
20 years and have played together several times. It was hard to
schedule this interview because Robin is a little busy currently as, Miss
Lauryn Hill's opening tour DJ. Having grown up in suburban and urban
Chicago. DJ Reborn was exposed to a wide range of music. She got
her DJ start in San Francisco and made her way to New York, where
she became committed to making DJing a full time situation. DJ Reborn
talks about teaching, the difference between spinning at lounges and
stadiums, and gives some sage advice. Let's listen to DJ Reborn.

Reborn: My practice is definitely DJing, and then I do things DJ-related, so

whether that is working in theater, like I said, providing soundtracks for
live theater shows. That's not just straight ahead mixing music but also
incorporating sound effects, dialogue, recorded voices, sound design,
collaging-I also consider myself to be a sound collage artist-and then
also, all of my years as a mentor and mentoring young people
particularly young girls with creative writing and DJing. I would say I'm
a sound collage artist, a DJ. I've dabbled a bit in production but not
enough to call myself a producer at all. But I'm interested in learning,
it's still what I do.

So you Ubiquita that you mentioned, Ubiquita was a women DJ

centered party that I did on the Lower East Side with Kim Knox and
Deshawn Maxwell and Selly and Moni, and we had other DJs sort of
rotate in and out shErOck, Rimarkable, this woman Mia for a while. And
so it was a weekly party. So that was my main residency in New York
and it grew to be pretty popular in terms of all the dancers would come,
and the music was eclectic. Super fun party. We had a good time there.

Rekha: You had two floors.

57
Reborn:- Exactly. You gotta love that.

Rekha: It was at Save the Robots?

Reborn: Yes, exactly. Save the Robots which was then Guernica when we we
were there. But that party sort of gave me a home base in New York,
but at that time I was also traveling too, with Will, for the theater piece
and then I got booked for being the DJ for Russell Simmons Def Poetry
Tour, like their final year of touring. So I did that for a year.

I appreciate the diversity of what I do. So I've done stuff with the
Howard Zinn project and the Eve Ensler stuff like. I love being able be
the musical voice or the soundtrack for events and organizations that
do work that I believe in that, and that I care about, and that I think is
important. I like having something to say in those environments with
what I play.

So as far as the teaching stuff, again, I started mentoring in 2000,

somewhere around there. Then that transitioned into teaching at a DJ
school here in New York that no longer exists. And then I've taught at
another one as well. I've taught at a few DJ schools now over the
course of all these years in New York. And it's interesting because I
didn't realize, as I said before, that it's a whole different set of skills
right. So, teaching people how to DJ is very simple, it comes easily
from me, but it also took a long time to fine tune my teaching style and
being able to communicate information, terminology, and skill, and be
supportive to people and make them work hard but also show them a
bunch of shortcuts that I wish I would have known, when I was teaching
myself how to DJ. So for me I always get so much out of teaching
because I lie seeing people connect those dots and have a successful
mix or whatever it is that makes them feel less intimidated by the craft,
because it is a craft and I think people, because of the technology of
today, really take for granted how you still have to work at the craft.

58
Rekha: Is a different to do the fifty thousand versus Bed and Vyne, or a
nightclub versus a stage, is there anything different about how you
work in the different contexts?

Reborn: There is something different about how I work, depending on what

setting I'm in. So to DJ at a smaller bar lounge is a bit more relaxing.
You can just kind of do you and be creative, and the stakes are not
high because people are chillin', so you can relax a bit. If I'm doing a
theater thing, that's a bit more nerve racking because so much of that is
about hitting cues. It's like coloring inside the lines in this particular
setting. I have to stay within the lines otherwise other things get thrown
off if I'm off.

Rekha: You're keeping the time.

Reborn: I'm keeping the time literally. Exactly. So yeah, when I'm in front of
huge crowds, it's very daunting and nerve racking, but my strategy with
myself is to try to just enjoy being in the moment and not focus on how
many people, how many eyes are on me. I get a lay of the land and I'm
like, "Ok, there's 20,000 people here. I know that this song is going to
work for 50 percent of them.

Rekha: Right, so party joints, you know.

Reborn: Yeah exactly, I try to have a diverse set so that everybody in the crowd
hears something that they like and that they remember that they're
having like an experience and they're being taken on a journey, as
opposed to it just some DJ slamming record together.

So when I'm on tour, the sets have some staples, some go-to's that I
know work no matter where I am. And then I try to modify it based on
where we are. So if we're in a particular city, country, I usually try to
play music from that place, or from artists that are from that place, just

59
as like a nod to knowing where I am and wanting to represent the
sound of that place in my set if I can, just out of respect for being there.

And then because DJing is a lot of times in environments where there

are lots of men, there sometimes can just be that twinge or that feeling
of like, you know, especially if people can get to your DJ booth or
wherever you're DJing. It doesn't always feel so good to be that
vulnerable, which is why DJ booths are preferable. So people can't
necessarily just walk right up to you, but that's kind of it. It's like you
know or you're somewhere like with drunk people fights break out. Shit
starts getting thrown and you're like, "Oh I better duck under these
turntables."

Oh absolutely my gender has played a role in that, I mean we live in

patriarchy, we live in a sexist society and oppression and white
supremacy is real. I'm a Black woman DJ, so that's just like... People
are going to try to test you. And I've been tested and that's another
reason why I don't think I'm interested in doing my own events,
because dealing with that side of things and having to like logistically
deal with anything, from getting my money to just logistical stuff, I'm not
into it. But yes, of course venues and promoters have tried to not pay,
or promised one thing and did something else. I do think that obviously
gender plays a role, just like race does in the opportunities that come or
don't come. So I think that it's really powerful when people get to see a
Black woman DJing in a major setting, like we're in a huge arena or
whatever that is, just because it's not a common sight. So I know that
it's powerful. And so I think my focus is just on that. On trying to be
powerful.

The other thing that I will say to young DJs too or new DJs is: you
never know who's listening and I want to say that my biggest
professional opportunities have come from me just putting my head
down and doing the work and someone happened to be listening. That
changed my life. That changed altered the course of my professional
60
 experience, because they were in a room and I had no idea they were
there.

Rekha: Well that's great advice. It's like "dance like no one's watching", or "play
like anyone's listening."

Reborn: Exactly.

61
 Podcast Transcript

From the Decks: Rimarkable

62
 From the Decks: Rimarkable

Rekha: In this episode I speak with DJ Rimarkable. I've known about

Rimarkable since she was part of the all-female lineup at the legendary
Ubiquita nights in the East Village in the early aughts. We DJed
together twice, once at DJ Reborn's birthday, and oh yeah, at the
Women's March in DC, where she told Madonna's daughter to get off
our monitor's speakers. Rimarkable talks about how a tragic event
became the impetus for creating a much-needed and healing day party,
and how an ad in a school paper started her professional music career.
Let's listen to Rimarkable.

Rimarkable: My name is Maria Elana Garcia also known as Rimarkable.

Rekha: How did you become a DJ? Where did it start, and feel free to go as in
detail as you want to. I'll ask follow-up questions as we unfold your
story.

Rimarkable: Ok, interestingly enough, I've been asked this question a lot recently,
and thank you for giving me permission to go as deep as I'd like to go,
as it just kind of sparks some ideas in my head. I wanted to be a DJ out
of rebellion. My love for music and all sorts of genres came out of
rebellion. I come from a very staunch Christian household where my
mother was, or is, also a classically trained pianist. I was raised strictly
on classical and gospel music. And I have older siblings, had more
access to worldly music or what we call worldly music, secular music.
So I was reduced to a broad spectrum of music: popular music, black
music, and just all kinds of music honestly, genre. Being from a place
that is known for its music.

Rekha: What does that place?

Rimarkable: So I'm from Detroit, a place that is very famous for its music, not just
Motown but also techno music. Detroit is also known for it's rock and
63
roll. So all those layers, all those things intertwining in the DNA of the
city, being programmed into me and subconsciously, when I gained
access to it, inspired me to not just retain the knowledge of it being
there but also to use it as an act of resistance.

I'm not going home this summer, it was right after sophomore year, and
I was like, "Well shit I better get a job." I'm waiting last minute trying to
find a job, trying to find a job, and there was this ad in the paper, in my
school paper that was like, "Wanna be a DJ or looking for DJs," blah
blah blah, "Hit us up." Hit them up. They called me in for an interview, I
forget, I was late, because I got lost and they were pretty much over me
when I walked in, because I was so late. But they gave me a little music
test, which was the most obscure, random, almost like big band and
70's and 80's music, like stuff you play at a wedding or whatever. And
they were so impressed that I got them all right. Like, "Who the hell is
this girl? How does she know-who is this girl?" And they were like,
"Ok, wait a minute." Because nobody gets all of these right. And so it
was a mobile company, and I told them, "Like look I don't have any
experience. I'm down to learn, you see I have the knowledge, help me."
And it was not getting paid jack during my training. Free training. Free
for them. But I learned how to use equipment and learned how to
troubleshoot. They had turntables. They had techniques, but I also
learned from the beginnings of the CDJ. But I was just so enthralled
and excited to be a DJ.

It taught me how to read a crowd. Like honestly, it taught me how to

read a crowd, how to play for anybody. I know how to play for anyone
I've done it all.

I've done christenings to weddings to bar mitzvahs to funerals like I've

done it all, backyard barbecues, grand openings, proms, like you name
it. I've done this.

64
In the 90's they would let me have back-to-back weddings. I was
making like 50 grand in the 90's, which was a ton of money. That was
that was good money, but I gave up a lot. I gave up a lot of my youth.
That was my heyday. I had to get confined, so knowing what I was
going to do a year from now. [I couldn't really plan. I couldn't go on
vacations. I couldn't explore like all my friends are going to Europe and
everything. I'm making all this money but I'm still right here.

I actually don't use turntables. I was kind of like nervous or slightly

ashamed to even say that, because I was looked down upon. People
would hire me. My hip hop friends that were emcees would hire me for
stuff, but hip hop was not my first love. My first love in the dance world
is disco and house music.

The Orlando shootings happened, and it happened around Pride

Season. During Pride Month and I reached out to Ryan, or I was at the
Allied Media Conference with Ryan, who is the founder of BkIn
Boihood, and we've been dear friends for years. And I was like, "Yo, we
need to throw a party for our people for Pride. We got heal, we need
some love, we got to hug it out, we need to be around each other." I
was like, "And quite frankly everybody doesn't go to the city. Everybody
doesn't want to go to the city for Pride. And so we need to throw one."
And I was like, "I want to do this party and want to call it Joy." And it's
gonna be a cute day party, a little tea party, because people are
missing that, and this younger generation doesn't know about tea
parties. I wanted to create a safe space for queer and trans people of
color to come together, for us to be around each other. We feel safe.
We're not subconsciously antagonized by the threat of whiteness,
sometimes it is very threatening, especially when you're already
triggered or you're already feeling hurt or you're already feeling pain.
And I wanted to create a place where people felt safe to be themselves
and to celebrate our own traditions.

65
We're also trying to only work with people of color, or at least queer
folks. So we outgrew Cocktail in two seconds. And it was
uncomfortable and it didn't feel safe. It didn't physically feel safe. So
that's also very important to me. There needs to be exits. There needs
to be accessibility to people that are disabled. There needs to be
accessibility to the damn bathroom. There are a few white allies that
come. But I think because there's such a strong presence that is
known, they just haven't shown up.

The collective, like Joy being the collective, or the business. We have
very strong policies and we don't care how big your shit is. We had a
battle with Brooklyn Museum about certain things. About visibility,
about the way that they were being marketed. For instance they kept
being like "Bklyn Boihood presents Joy," and we were like, "Ok no, Joy
is not Bklyn Boihood. Joy is Bklyn Boihood and Rimarkable." That's
very important because people need to see what we're doing. The
power behind what we're doing. And how we name is very important.
But they kept but they kept making that mistake and it was a mess for a
second. And it was a queer person of color that kept making the
mistake, and I was just like, "Yo...."

We had to clown name on the mic a little bit, you know. Kind of like,
"Let's be very clear about certain things, don't take our power away
from us." Like we're not fighting for no reason. We show up, our people
are going to show up and we're going to smash. I obliterated Brooklyn
Museum. I know I did. I'm very proud of that. Tore them a new asshole,
like I feel that way. We went off in there and it was packed, and it was a
sea of brown and black queer folks. And it was dope, amongst all these
bougies and their Hasids and the this and that. Yeah. It gave us a
platform and it gave us access to something that we may not have had
access to. But the exchange was like, "We made y'all look good. Like
make us look good."

66
Rekha: What do you consider your art practice when it comes to DJing. What is
it that you do?

Rimarkable: I would consider it alchemy. I have a class that I teach that has a very
particular curriculum. And I call my class "The Alchemy of DJing" and I
call it alchemy I'm taking a roomful of people that may or may not know
each other, but I have all kinds of different backgrounds. Even if
physical, like we're all black in this room, everybody's not the same.
Everyone has a different experience. Some people are shy. Some
people are extroverted, some people, whatever. And I'm using music to
transform this room.

67
 Podcast Transcript

From the Decks: DJ Ushka

68
 From the Decks: DJ Ushka

Rekha: In this episode I speak with DJ Ushka, a Sri Lankan-born, Thailand-

raised, Brooklyn-based DJ that traverses genres across electronic club
and bass music. She DJs from the perspective of a dancer, blending a
wide range of club music from soca to dancehall, hip hop to South
Asian rhythms, Baltimore Jersey Club to Baile Funk, and too many
genres to list. When she isn't crafting dance floor spaces, Ushka is a
political and cultural organizer. Here, DJ Ushka, or Thanu as I know
her, talks about the power of the backspin, playing club music from
communities of color, what makes a mix an art project, and why she
always insists on getting paid, even if it's for a good cause. Let's take a
listen.

Ushka: My DJ name is Ushka. My full name is Thanushka Yakupitiyage.

Thanushka actually means the rhythm of music in the sky. How you
flow from one song to another, where you're being conscious of the
BPM and how songs like fit together, basically. When I say transition,
as a DJ, you're not just playing one song after the other, in succession,
you're blending music and that's what I mean by transition. So how do
you blend music with that fundamental flow? I think about it from the
perspective of a dancer, because when I was just dancing, you can
always tell if something was a little bit off or a tempo is off. In the in
DJing, you have to keep the flow. For me it's also about how you can
also dance uninterrupted.

I do not scratch the way a hip hop DJ would scratch on vinyl. I use
CDJs now, USB sticks and CDJs. So I prep things on Rekordbox
ahead of time. I'll spin the track, like sometimes if I am not just
transitioning. I'll back spin, and because I play across genres, I really
see my DJ practice s one of genre blending and I'm very interested in
what I call migrant music.

69
 I play everything from my Afro beats to soca to dancehall. I play maybe
less South Asian music, but certainly Desi music as well, club music
from across communities of color in the States. So sometimes it's
difficult when you're sustaining a set that has multiple kinds of genres,
like you have to employ other techniques, transitions are not very
simple.

And so back spinning sometimes is important to be able to shift from

one general to the next. For me like making a mix is an art project in
and of itself. Yu can tell a whole story and you have a little bit more
time to think about it. And so it's like a whole research process, like
what tracks you're going to put on this mix and like who's producing
what.

When I'm making a mix, it's like an essay. When I'm in the club, you
have to think about audience and you have to think about vibe. In the
club, I might have like a sense. Usually like lot of people who aren't DJs
will be like, "Well what's your first song."Or like, "What do you know
how to play," and I'm like, "You don't, you have to sort of feel the vibe."
So I always get that at least an hour before my set, because you have
to be able to hear what that person before you has been playing, what
people in the room are doing in order to play your sound.

I play a lot of stuff that I like, I think I play like a dancer.

Rekha: So what does that mean?

Ushka: I play stuff that I want to dance to like. I play a lot of bass music. For
example one thing that I like to do, I always fixate on the two or three
people who I can tell are really good dancers, and a lot of my flow is
based on their flow, because I can see what they're into and it feeds my
energy. And a lot of my sets are impromptu. I'm deciding in the
moment.

70
 This is one of the things that is a constant critique, like suddenly after
2011, I feel like, particularly 2013 onwards, there was a lot more queer
and women DJs. A lot of men I would hear be like, "Well there's more
women DJs because it's easier to DJ." That was like a lot of what
people would say, you could just hit sync and then you consider
yourself a DJ.

Rekha: Do you think that's true?

Ushka: No, I mean because there is a conversation to be had about

accessibility. I do think that certain things became a little bit more
accessible, and I think that's OK. And I think that there's still a craft.

Rekha: What's the craft?

Ushka: For me, there's a craft around how you create a space, how you
sustain a party, how you sustain a vibe, with music, in a way where
you're not just like hitting play, and then start and play.

Rekha: Well how do you create a space?

Ushka: What does it mean to create a space?

Ushka: For me what gives me joy is actually seeing people starting to move
and the times that I feel like the most satisfied, for example I just DJed
Papi Juice just two weeks ago, and I was in a smaller room and the DJ
before me, there was not really that many people on the dance floor
because it was too early, and then I had the set up at like 12 or 12:30.
And I had the opportunity to fill the space. And the way in which you
attract people to dance is by like, for me it's playing a set that makes
people nostalgic and also bringing in sort of new beats. Because I DJ
all sorts of music, just like having a sense of who's in the room.

Rekha: So it's curating, right. It's like the programming part.

71
Ushka: Yeah it is. It's a curation of music.

Rekha: You're attracting people by what you play.

Ushka: Yes.

Rekha: The content.

Ushka: It's a profession. It's not like my full time profession, but I think that we
need to be super professional about it. In the past when I initially
started, I was a little bit more like, "Yeah pay me whatever." It gives off
the impression that you don't really care, so other people don't have to
care. And so I'm very, very clear. And it's not like I charge that much. If
someone's like, "How much is an hour set," I'll belike, "it's 300" and go
from there and do some negotiating.

And like it depends, like if it's like a corporate gig, I'm charging a lot. If
it's like an organization, I'm charging a certain amount. I am also like
making some assessments, so it's not the first thing that I'm thinking
about, is money, and also like I'm not a full time DJ. I have health
insurance. I have a full time job. But I'm also interacting in spaces with
people who are full time DJs. And so I don't want to lower my standards
because if I lower my standards I'm blowing it for everyone.

72
 Podcast Transcript

From the Decks: DJ Rekha

73
 From the Decks: DJ Rekha

Rekha: The final installment of this series is with yours truly. I was resistant to
include myself in the narrative, but then I realized by not doing so, I was
doing what a lot of folks I talked to with did, which is to diminish and or
deny my history. What happens when the interviewer is the
interviewee? The accounts presented in the previous four episodes
were so rich yet varied, as it was my intent to let you hear different
aspects of the DJ experience. But now I'm gonna share a few thoughts
about my own experience, and how this process of doing this research
has affected me.

Shireen: My name is Shireen Hamza. I am an independent podcast producer

and a historian. I'm really excited to be sitting down with Rekha today
who I've had the immense pleasure of getting to know over the last two
years.

Rekha: Likewise.

Shireen: And I just learned a lot from her about her research, but also about her
very long and interesting career as a musician, as a DJ, as a producer,
as a creative talent.

Rekha: Thank you.

Shireen: I'm really curious about this question that I've heard you get and seen
your face suppress a cringe. [Laughs] In a way that-

Rekha: Has it really been suppressed though? I doubt it.

Shireen: And the question is: what's it like to be a woman DJ?

Rekha: I hate that question. And I will actually not answer the question, but I
will tell you why I do not like the question. The question assumes that

74
 it's a burden, and it assumes that I must labor to talk about why it's a
burden, as opposed to addressing structural issues of why that's even
a question. And I'm a DJ first. You don't ask a man what's it like to be a
man DJ, or anything, director, actor. It sort of reifies the need to ask the
question, and I feel like there's so many better deeper questions to ask,
that we can skip that question. And sometimes in interviews I ask
ahead of time, you know, "What are you gonna say?" And they say
that. I go, "I don't wanna talk about that." There's other things to ask
and we're sort of like, acknowledging that question needs to be
addressed and asked in this way, and I feel like it's forcing a
marginalization, and let's move on. You know, let's just move on from
that.

Shireen: Is there an aspect of it that you think is productive to talk about

especially with women who are maybe aspiring to be DJs?

Rekha: I think for women who are aspiring to be DJs, they should just also
listen to the larger story. The larger story talks about whatever
challenges or whatever things may or may not happen. And I think if
you want to learn about, aspirationally, just being and just speaking, it
is important to say why is it like, because you're a woman. It assumes a
burden, and it's not a burden for me.

It's not to say it's not challenging, it's not to say there are not issues
because of gender, but this feeling of burden is burdensome.

Shireen: I'm really curious about what you learned from these interviews that
you maybe didn't expect going in.

Rekha: I was surprised to learn what I learned too, because this was familiar
territory. I knew a lot of these women. I was like, "Oh we're gonna have
shop talk," but it went so much deeper than that. The act of us sharing
our stories was so empowering to me. We don't really get to talk about
our histories or what we're doing, and to have someone who's had
75
 similar experiences was really important. So it was really deeper point
of connection. I've worked a lot of these women, but I didn't know their
histories. I didn't know Ayes Cold lived in so many places and started
clubbing at 16.

Shireen: And saw her mom there.

Rekha: And saw her mom. Her mom was a party girl and was also at the club.
[Laughs]. So I mean, what is that like, growing up in a place of privilege
and being in clubs that young? Or Rimarkable started out her career as
a mobile DJ, which I did too, which I didn't admit to for many years
because I thought it wasn't cool, but it's really good training, and it
makes sense of how I see her understand music and the depth of her
understanding music. And even the way Reborn, who I've known for
many years, her relationship to teaching and mentoring, how seriously
she takes it. Just the different kinds of things each person did.

Shireen: Do you want to tell us what mobile DJing is?

Rekha: Mobile DJing? Yes, I will tell you what mobile DJing is.

Shireen: I was too ashamed to ask about it before. [Laughs]

Rekha: I know, I think I think the one thing that is easy for me to do, and even
when we're talking, is to get in the weeds and talk about things with a
sense of familiarity. I do think that in my experiences of talking with
men, that's a kind of a way of exclusion, is to not explain things. I'm
glad you asked what mobile DJing is.

Mobile DJing refers to bringing everything to the place. And when we

think of mobile DJing, we think of private parties, weddings, weddings,
bar mitzvahs, for hire. And there's a certain kind of aesthetic around
that, which is different to club Ding.

76
Shireen: That really resonates a lot with me because-

Rekha: You're from New Jersey! [Laughs] I'm just kidding!

So I guess the takeaways from the research is, it made me think

deeper about my practice and what I do. It connected me deeper to
these stories. It reminded me how important it is to self-reflect, and in
asking a lot of these questions for these women, they were forgetting,
or they weren't remembering in the same way. And it's so easy for us,
especially, you know, as an artist, as a New Yorker, as we hustle from
gig to gig, to just forget things. So I do think it's really important and
powerful to remember, to acknowledge, to take a step back and to talk
with each other.

You know, the community-ness of DJing. When we DJ together, it's a

loud place. It's at night, if we're transitioning, we're trying to do a
technological switchover. And you know, within these group of women,
some of them are friends and they communicate and hang out outside.
But some of us, we just see each other in these spaces, and it was just
really great and powerful to share.

77
Interview Transcripts

78
Interview Transcript:

DJ Ayes Cold

79
 (Edited) Interview with DJ Ayes Cold

Rekha: So let's take it from where you started DJing. We talked a lot about
format and that you started DJing in D.C., in art parties. Through
friends and connections, and then you built a reputation and then one
thing led to another. It kind of snowballed. You said you found these
two mentors or colleagues-mentors who showed you the way in some
ways or did some skill share knowledge. As well you felt that there
were some other crews, say that part again about the other crews that
you felt...

Ayes Cold: Well there, in D.C., there are portions of the DJ scene centered on
people, centered around people of color, women, non binary people,
queer people. At the time I started DJing, I did not necessarily feel like
those portions of the scene were that forthcoming with connecting with
me. It took me a while to, to connect with those scenes and feel seen
by the people running those scenes.

Rekha: Were you a participant? Did you go to those parties?

Ayes Cold: Yes, I did. I did go to those parties but not as, I, I have always been
more of a loner.

Rekha: Right.

Ayes Cold: Socially, I've never really been a part of crews. And I do think that a lot
of the queer scene, here maybe, but in D.C. definitely, it's a very
chosen family-oriented model, community-oriented model. And I've
always been, I've always rolled solo dolo. It's really how I am. It's not
necessarily a rejection of community as a necessary thing.

Rekha: Right.

80
Ayes Cold: But I always rode solo to things and so I did not necessarily have a
place in those scenes. Even as somebody who you know really, like, I
had, I had a girlfriend at the time, who a lot of them knew.

Rekha: Right, right. So it didn't help.

Ayes Cold: No, because they probably didn't like her [Laughs]. And, she probably
hooked up with a couple of them.

Rekha: That's the problem with family, with a chosen queer family. That's
interesting.

Ayes Cold: I think musically. So much of those portions of the scene were defined
first and foremost by creating community. And then second by music.
Music was not necessarily the glue or entry point into the center or
focal point of those scenes even though music was definitely something
celebrated. I started DJing solely with an obsession around the music,
and the community that emerged from that came secondary. I always
felt like I've seen these distinctions. The community is defined and then
the music, or you focus on the music and the community builds around
that. I don't necessarily see people seeing eye to eye on that.

Rekha: Did you feel like the DJs in that scene were like, did they not care about
the music or did they care about the craft or the DJing or what was it?

Ayes Cold: I felt like, it's kind of hard to say without coming across as like, I
want... Basically, it never felt like it was ever about the craft. To me it
was about this feeling of creating a sense of community on the dance
floor and playing the songs that people could sing along to and
everyone known and loved. A lot of cumbia and bachata, connecting
musical traditions with other cultural traditions in the various diasporas
that would be in the room which was a beautiful thing. But my approach
was a little different.

81
Rekha: You were more concerned with craft.

Ayes Cold: Yes.

Rekha: So in terms of like those scenes and wanting to connect in the

celebratory community way, did you feel the music, did you build
community in those spaces?

Ayes Cold: Music for me built community in unexpected ways with people who I
wouldn't necessarily have expected would be in my musical family.
Music connected me with people who perhaps I would have otherwise
not really given the time of day. You know based around just our own
insularity around who we hang out with and who we identify with on a
cultural and social level.

Rekha: So you started on a laptop and Twitch, and then you now DJ how?

Ayes Cold: Now I DJ on CDJs on a USB stick primarily. Although in a heartbeat I

could switch to CDJs and Serato.

Rekha: When I met you, you were using a controller.

Ayes Cold: I was using a controller. If you're asking me now, this is what I do now.
If you want to know about the evolution, how I got there...

Rekha: I do. I want to know how you got there. Tell me.

Ayes Cold: So I started on Innovation Twitch and Traktor. And then I moved from
Traktor to Serato, so I needed a Pioneer controller to go with Serato.
Because I don't think that there was a functionality...

Rekha: There's no internal mode.

Ayes Cold: ... With Pioneer and Traktor even.

82
Rekha: No, nope. There wasn't.

Ayes Cold: Unless you were to map it, which is complicated.

Rekha: No, you could use Traktor on, you could use it, not on the controller.
You can use physical hardware like turntables and CDJs. You can't
use, like the controllers are not made for Traktor. There are separate
Traktor controllers.

Ayes Cold: So DJ Underdog and Native Son, two of my comrades and early
supporters, they were using the Pioneer DDJ Series controllers, and
they had a couple different kinds. I saw them using them and I was like,
these are great. You know, you've got pads that you can use, it's cute
to hot cue and rolls and create loops. And you also have jog wheels
which give you a little bit of a, you know, a more traditional DJ feel. And
two guys who I looked up to were using them and they're very portable,
easy to set up. And so that was, that was my format for at least up until
2017, even. My preferred format. And then after a certain point, I
started feeling like I need to be able to rock on whatever equipment a
club has. So I got myself a Serato box, Serato control vinyls, did that...

Rekha: So did you have turntables at home?

Ayes Cold: No. I now do. But at the time I didn't.

Rekha: OK. But you had that stuff in preparation, and did you learn how to use
turntables and Serato?

Ayes Cold: Yes, I did. Yeah, but mainly self-taught. Some advice from friends. But
I didn't have two turntables. I had one turntable actually. So there was a
time where I was going instant doubles for the most parts. There are
gigs that I did just with one turntable.

Rekha: We've all known, all done them.

83
Ayes Cold: Yeah.

Rekha: Mostly because the other turntables are broken.

Ayes Cold: Yeah. I've had massive calibration issues with different turntables at
different clubs and I've had so many nights where I've just had to Uber
home and get my controller, in DC especially.

Rekha: Yeah. Oh yeah.

Ayes Cold: Janky ass turntables. So it kind of got me thinking about other ways to
be versatile. I got my hands on a pair of CDJ 850s. I guess in 2017
from this club that was shutting down downtown.

Rekha: Uh huh.

Ayes Cold: And I bought a pair of those for, two for eight hundred.

Rekha: Wow, good price.

Ayes Cold: Yep. One of the key buttons was a little sticky on one of them but for
the most part functional. They both have USB inputs.

Rekha: Perfect.

Ayes Cold: CD inputs. They don't link. But hey I will take what I can get to practice
on. And the display is very rudimentary but that really does train you to
beat match by ear, not having anything visual to rely on.

Rekha: And it plays record box.

Ayes Cold: Yeah. Actually, no no no, sorry.

Rekha: No. Okay.

84
Ayes Cold: No cue points.

Rekha: No cue points.

Ayes Cold: So you really have to like...

Rekha: You're cueing each time.

Ayes Cold: It forces you to...

Rekha: No, well, I used to have CDJ 1000.

Ayes Cold: MK2?.

Rekha: Yes.

Ayes Cold: Yes!

Rekha: Maybe an MK 1.

Ayes Cold: I used to book at a bar that only had those.

Rekha: You could put an SD card in.

Ayes Cold: Oh cool.

Rekha: And have cue points on the SD card.

Ayes Cold: Wow that's cool. Must have been an MK1.

Rekha: I did a live performance. Spoken word performance with a friend. It was
such a tight transition that I was playing stuff while she read, and this is
before Serato... where I eventually sold those two pair for like 300 for
both because even though I bought them for like eight, nine hundred
85
 bucks each. Because you know I was trying to get the last juice out of
them. They're so obsolete.

Ayes Cold: Yeah for sure. You know what, I actually played on my 850s for a gig
as soon as I got out here to Brooklyn. I DJed that Brooklyn Bazaar that
Anuva threw and Anuva didn't have any gear, and the only gear I had
with me that I brought with me to New York was those two 850s.

Rekha: And a mixer?

Ayes Cold: And a mixer. Yes I brought my, I actually bought a pioneer D.J. M8. I
think it was an 800 mixer.

Rekha: I have that.

Ayes Cold: Four channels.

Rekha: Solid, its solid.

Ayes Cold: I bought that for a thousand.

Rekha: Yeah.

Ayes Cold: It's a little more pricey than the two CDJs.

Rekha: No, it is. But you know a mixer, has many inputs, does lots of things.
So, do you scratch when you play?

Ayes Cold: You know what. So there was a moment where I definitely was
teaching myself different scratch techniques. I think, I mean across the
different gear I have practiced on over the years, so not at one point,
but there were consistent, like you know, they were consistent
attempts.

86
Rekha: Right.

Ayes Cold: And I just never felt like turntableism as an approach to DJing was
really my initial like point of interest and entry point into DJing. And I
really felt like it was, I was definitely getting a lot of advice and
unsolicited advice from other DJs to teach myself how to, you know just
become more of a turntableist because..., in DC especially.

Rekha: Who was giving you this advice?

Ayes Cold: Mostly male deejays, turntablist friends. Some really, some really nice
guys but, but definitely narrow-minded in this sort of "real DJ" you know
that, have you seen that term used?

Rekha: Please. Girl, I've been doing this for 26.years ... And did they use, those
real DJs, did they use the scratching when they DJed a lot? Do you
know?

Ayes Cold: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. They were, they were definitely turntablists.

Rekha: Were they doing like open format parties or were they doing parties
where people appreciated it or not?

Ayes Cold: They were, they were doing open format sets.

Rekha: And they were scratching in it.

Ayes Cold: Yeah.

Rekha: And people liked it?

Ayes Cold: You know what. That's actually a good question.

Rekha: I'm such a, totally leading the question.

87
Ayes Cold: Some of these deejays would play for hip-hop crowds, and they play
for, they were just so confident in their, like, in their skills that they didn't
really care. And, I think in some ways the psychology of that like made
other people kind of like not really like critique them. You know about
that aspect.

Rekha: What do you mean they didn't care? They didn't care what people were
doing or they didn't care...

Ayes Cold: There's this attitude which is like I'm a DJ. Naturally I'm a turntableist
and naturally you want to hear me interrupt every couple of bars with
some scratch action. You know like it's, it's interesting right because it's
so subjective. Like, yes scratches can sound dope but at the same time
I don't feel a desire to hear scratching on the mixes that I listen to when
I'm on dance floors. Personally I don't. But I definitely have been in
rooms with people who really really, mostly men, who really like look up
to it as like a way of like manipulating sound, you know, and a nod to
an old school culture that's dying and so there is like a, I don't know. I
don't know. There is, there is a masculinity, a machismo around it and
there's this notion of preserving traditions that are, that are under
assault in this digital era.

Rekha: And what's the tradition that's under assault?

Ayes Cold: It's turntableism. It's, it's real hip-hop. You know D.C. actually has very
like thriving, thriving like turntableist scenes. But I don't know how they
actually do as far as numbers go from like a bookings standpoint
because when I worked at a club, we would mostly book more
electronic DJ acts.

Rekha: And they don't scratch as much?

88
Ayes Cold: No they don't. Which comes back to my point, which is, I never really
saw myself as that. It wasn't really what I felt I wanted to set as my task
or my challenge when I started DJing My task initially or my challenge
was always the blends, mixes, telling a story, going on a journey. The
curation side to this.

Rekha: The curation.

Ayes Cold: Absolutely.

Rekha: So, not to dwell too much on the other scene, the queer scene that you
know we talked about. Do you feel like the curation in those scenes
was thought out or important, or like you know in terms of like you know
scratching or the craft wasn't necessarily a display there. Do you think
that there was thought put into curation in those spaces?

Ayes Cold: Yes. There was definitely thought put into curation. But I think
personally I want to feel like even if your emphasis is on curation, you
want to engage your hardware in a way that enhances that curation.
For me, what enhances my curation are the spaces, are transitions.
Transitions are very important to me and I think transitions create, give
you the opportunity as someone you can create your own beats with a
transition, you know. Transitions to me are telling a story in a way. They
add to the narrative for me. That was initially the challenge too, you
know, come up with bizarre transitions. I loved that.

Rekha: And do you use other like techniques, like looping, or...?

Ayes Cold: Yes. I was doing a lot of looping and I still do a lot of looping as a
means to... like I don't go crazy with like you know the sort of like that
tiny one beat loops, you know that that stuttering sound.

Rekha: Well I feel like the stuttering is sort of an extension of scratching. It is a

way of disruption, disruption for attention.
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Ayes Cold: Yeah definitely. I felt like I engaged looping since I started on a
controller. That's always been my way of control without having to even
nudge the jog wheels. Looping and hot cues, hitting the hot cue pads
like they were drums, like on a drum pad.

Rekha: Hot cues meaning that there's several different cue points and then
you're going between them.

Ayes Cold: Yeah.

Rekha: To sort of create like a, like a new edit or something on the fly is what
you're, what's happening.

Ayes Cold: Yeah. But again, I've always been a deejay who likes to listen to how
my dance floor is responding.

Rekha: Right.

Ayes Cold: And so I always approach like the disruptive aspects of DJing with the,
a desire to keep a groove or a flow that people are in. I just really enjoy
the feeling of people enjoying themselves on a dance floor. And if I can
negotiate, like, it feels like a negotiation to me. You know it's like being
able to negotiate my own technique and my own intentions with the
energy that I'm getting from, from the room too.

Rekha: Now earlier you said you grew up in several places and you're exposed
to several, you know, each place because you travel in so many
places. Could we just do a quick review of that.

Ayes Cold: I was born in Chicago. At seven, I moved to South India. Chennai. I
lived there for five years. The age of 12, 1 moved to the San Francisco
Bay Area and lived there for two years, did middle school, listened to a
lot of hip-hop then. Then I moved back to India because the stock
market crashed. I went to boarding school in the foothills of the
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 Himalayas, to Woodstock International School. Went there for two
years. My mother lived in Goa at the time. She got robbed and so she
basically decided she needed to leave Goa, and she wanted to move to
Bangalore and give that a shot. So she took my sister and I out of
boarding school and we finished up high school, the last two years,
11th and 12th grade, at a Canadian school in Bangalore.

Rekha: Of course, where you learned Canadian.

Ayes Cold: Where we were unmonitored. We would go to the liquor store and buy
Smirnoff Twists, lock our doors and drink and go out to the clubs. And,
listen to the local DJ, DJ Ivan who was the beloved local selector with
his own DJ show. Him and his friend, Rohit Barker, would play lots of
house music, lots of tribal house. People are very sensitive to the term
tribal house, but back in the day, you get it, progressive house, tribal, it
was like it's own...

Rekha: Tribal is definitely... in New York, tribal house is huge. It was one of the
staples of body and soul.

Ayes Cold: No way.

Ayes Cold: I still really dig it. I'm going to be real with you.

Rekha: I mean, it is my preferred, my preferred house music. It's sparse.

Ayes Cold: It's got groove.

Rekha: Groove. Tribal Latin.

Ayes Cold: Yeah.

Rekha: I'm not a fan of progressive.

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Ayes Cold: Yeah.

Rekha: I personally never got really into techno either.

Ayes Cold: Yeah I feel you.

Rekha: Airy vibes. Louie Vega, Masters at work. That's my shit.

Ayes Cold: OK. Got you. Yeah. There were certain, there were certain tracks that I
can't, I wish I could, that were just really the more memorable tracks of
the moment that were tribal house tracks. I can't remember them. But I
could sing them to you and I don't want to right now over here. Okay.

Rekha: That's okay.

Ayes Cold: So yeah. And then we you know we would, we would wait till midnight
usually though and go dance to his hip-hop selections for the most part.
So those were some of the experiences that kind of influenced my love
of different styles of music and definitely on some level skewed towards
hip-hop and dancehall.

Rekha: Yeah but you're also like listening to it in a club. So it's it's own
experience right? Was it different than listening to it at home? Did you
want to, did you get that music to listen to at home? Was there a
different feeling around the experience?

Ayes Cold: I think that there is a real excitement to being in a club, especially the
age of 16.

Rekha: Anytime you're doing something you're not supposed to do there's an

excitement.

Ayes Cold: Oh, I was allowed. I would run into my mom at the club though. It would
be so funny.
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Rekha: So funny. You've got the fun mom.

Ayes Cold: Oh yeah.

Rekha: You got the tequila shot.

Ayes Cold: Much to my Dad's dismay. My dad wasn't in the country at that time. He
was trying to wrap up some business in the states still. So, yeah we, we
definitely had a lot of fun and definitely became aware of the power of
the DJ.

Rekha: Right.

Ayes Cold: You know.

Rekha: What is the power of a deejay?

Ayes Cold: The power of a D.J. is huge. I see it as you, you can make someone's
night really amazing or really terrible. You know, you have... life is hard
for a lot of people. And sometimes the power of movement and music
can be so healing for people. And, it's such a wonderful feeling when
you see people letting loose and like truly being present in the moment
and like that sort of... I feel euphoria vicariously through people. And I
don't know, some of the gratitude that people have expressed over the
years and shared with me, just there's been so much of it. And in
certain situations it's all it's been is just playing the right song at the
right moments. You know I can't even take credit for that but it just
makes me really aware of the power of sound and the ability of, of
sound to really evoke movement but also create mood. You know you
set the vibe. It's there are just so many levels here we could even go
into the science of it, I'm sure. But that would be another conversation.

Rekha: So how do you prepare for a set?

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Ayes Cold: I usually go into Record Box on my computer and I plug my USB sticks
into my computer and I pull them up on record box and I make sure that
my crates are organized. Basically when I say organized, all my tracks
that I think I'm gonna play or go to, I know where to find them. They're
usually across a series of crates. but if I think that there is a specific
mood that I want to set and I don't think any of my existing crates
already address it, I will drag a bunch of stuff into a crate and I will
make sure that the that the beak grids are set and I often just grids
actually and I will make sure that cue points are you know where they
need to be. Because I'm not one of those deejays who really like wants
moments of silence on the dance floor, like breaks in songs and stuff. I
find those a little awkward.

Rekha: Who wants that?

Ayes Cold: I don't know. I think certain House DJs and Techno DJs. They'll do like
the slow build back up.

Rekha: They'll do the old, turn down all the frequencies so you get a little bit of
space.

Ayes Cold: I know, that's not my style you know.

Rekha: So, what is your style? Is there your style?

Ayes Cold: It's very hard to define, Rekha:. It's evolving to at this point. My style
has changed from this year to even last year. This month it feels
different.

Rekha: You're a little baby in D.J. terms.

Ayes Cold: Yeah, maybe I'm going through the adolescence. Will I settle into a
style? Who knows?

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Rekha: Things keep changing.

Ayes Cold: Yeah. I think right now, I'm actually working on a new mix and I would
say my, the power of the impact of my mixes has waned over time as
I've gotten more weird. You know initially my mixes played it more safe
and they were getting a lot more love.

Rekha: You mean mixes that you record and put up?

Ayes Cold: Yes on Soundcloud, as far as Soundcloud activity goes.

Rekha: And, is that experience different than mixing live. Making a mix?

Ayes Cold: Making a mix? Absolutely. Because when you have a mix, you have
your, you can plan an entire set. You could, you could map out every
transition with a mix that you're going to record whereas on a dance
floor you kind of really have to be open to the power of suggestion from
your audience. I've learned that the hard way. When I first started
DJing, you know, I was like setting up every transition the safe way.
And then I learned that I started feeling constrained and when things
wouldn't, the audience wouldn't respond the way I'd want them to, I
would still feel trapped to follow through for some reason with the plan.
Then I started learning that hey, maybe the key is to set myself up for
the most, you know, flexible scenarios. So I think the bottom line is just
being as organized as possible and having an idea of the multitude of
directions you could go in.

Rekha: And does that take a lot of time?

Ayes Cold: You know, if you're DJing every other night, no, because you kind of
are, like you said, in flow and you're organized because you know you
organized for a set that was 24 hours ago.

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Rekha: But is there an end then if you're doing multiple gigs then, the
organization you do. For one thing you're getting more mileage out of
the organization I would say.

Ayes Cold: Yes, exactly.

Rekha: Is that what you're saying? So, does that organization take time is there
labor involved in it?

Ayes Cold: Yes. There is so much. So much. How much. I don't know. When I was
a full time DJ, when I didn't have a day job, I would probably say like 50
percent of my time, my downtime, was organizing music and digging for
new music. Because I also used to be that DJ who wanted new tracks
where every set, like at least a few new elements in every set, like a
few downloaded tracks every set. And I started realizing that's not
sustainable for me.

Rekha: Have you ever felt unsafe while you've DJed, well, physically.

Ayes Cold: Yes, absolutely.

Rekha: How so?

Ayes Cold: Once when I was DJing I had a woman-- but a woman who liked other
women-- come up. As I was DJing, she started trying to talk to me but
also trying to mess with my DJ gear.

Rekha: Oh.

Ayes Cold: Like pushing buttons and stuff. I felt unsafe, not physically as much as
like the sanctity of my practice at that moment. You know like my
personal space was really being invaded on a new level. You know like
she was trying to flirt with me but she, she crossed a different line with
me.
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Rekha: It didn't work obviously.

Ayes Cold: As non cis-men DJs, I feel like there's a certain level at which we know
how to de-escalate situations. It's just a matter of, it's been a matter of
survival in a way. This was one of those things that I just felt like was
something that had already escalated because they were already like
fucking with my set. I don't know.

Rekha: What did you do about it?

Ayes Cold: Security. It was at Tropicalia. I was on stage.

Rekha: So you're so close to those people.

Ayes Cold: I know.

Rekha: Also in Tropicalia...

Ayes Cold: It's been a while though since I played there.

Rekha: I haven't played there a long time either. I've also DJed not on the
stage, on the floor. That's some shit that's....

Ayes Cold: Now that on that floor.

Rekha: Oh yeah, I've done that.

Ayes Cold: I've done that.

Rekha: So I mean sometimes, it's just a lot of fun that you're in.

Ayes Cold: It can be fun.

Rekha: It's like, it's like kind of insane but it's like, it's such a high up.
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Ayes Cold: Absolutely. One time I also got somebody pulled a knife out at me, not
at a set but on my way home. I was at the bus stop after a gig.

Rekha: By yourself.

Ayes Cold: Waiting for the bus. This is after that I decided to take Ubers after every
set. But I used to, I would, this was right on 16th Street by Adams
Morgan and like Columbia.

Rekha: Where you think you would be safe.

Ayes Cold: That it was, I thought, it was well-lit, you know. And I was waiting for the
bus and I used to live literally like up the several blocks, up the streets.
Why not wait for the bus?

Rekha: Now you're like, well why take a cab because it's so close. Be safe. So
after the performance.

Ayes Cold: Yeah, after the performance basically I was waiting at the bus stop.

Rekha: Which is like the end of the night and there's like...

Ayes Cold: I mean there was a person who was basically shit talking everybody
waiting at the bus stop. It was a really uncomfortable situation. This guy
was shit talking Indians, Ethiopians, just other immigrant groups talking
about how he didn't belong here, talking about how we smell, all of that
shit.

Rekha: Ah fuck that guy.

Ayes Cold: Yes.

Rekha: Terrible.
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Ayes Cold: Yep. He triggered me. I said something and he, and then he pulled out
the knife.

Rekha: Shit.

Ayes Cold: Yeah.

Rekha: And then what happened?

Ayes Cold: Well I probably should have stopped talking to him but I insisted that
he, I shouldn't have done this but I was like I probably had to...

Rekha: Did you have some drinks in you?

Ayes Cold: No.

Rekha: No, no liquid courage?

Ayes Cold: I literally gestured to him, like you need to sit down and we need to
work through your anger issues.

Rekha: So do you think now, this is interesting-are you saying, do you think
as you are self-identified as a woman that you have to de-escalate and
that you know how to de-escalate.

Ayes Cold: Yeah. Yeah. I think also growing up in India too and being in Indian
clubs playing, there's so many situations where you have these like
guys breaking out into fights with each other in clubs. You see it
happen, you know, and you don't even know over what. Especially,
especially the clubs I used to go to a lot of clubs in India or wherever it
would be in India, I would end up at some club, in clubs and bars.
Something would trigger something and like you know de-escalation

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 was always something, that friends would jump in the middle and like
try to do.

Rekha: My God, if I had a nickel for every fight I've broken up. It's just, it's an
instinct, it's a thing. So I would even like, I could smell it about to
happen. Yeah, I can see it on the floor. And I'm just like, okay watch
that guy. That guy's being a jerk. I can see it's about to happen.

Ayes Cold: Seriously and I think, you know I don't know, I think that when, I mean, I
I don't see women breaking out into fights as much. You just don't. And
so I think, I think, I don't know.

Rekha: Have you seen fights while you DJed?

Ayes Cold: Well I don't know if social, socialized biological, I do, I do, I do, I do feel
like intuitively, my instincts are to de-escalate conflict before it happens.

Rekha: I mean obviously if there is a fight the party stops.

Ayes Cold: Or de-escalate even an unpleasant situation from happening to me.

Rekha: For your own safety.

Ayes Cold: Yeah. For my own safety. Definitely.

Rekha: Do you ever get asked to do things for free?

Ayes Cold: Yes actually even like two weeks ago I was asked to do something for
free. And it sucked, because she was Indian. Just throwing an Indian
event and she was friends with someone who used to teach a theater
class that I used to take in Chennai when I used to go to Chennai and I
used to be in her productions. And she told me that she'd love to get
me involved.

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Rekha: What was it for without being specific?

Ayes Cold: I, it was for, it was a gala.

Rekha: Oh the fucking gala. Don't get paid at the gala.

Ayes Cold: And, she said a bunch of artists-- she's a bharatnatayam teacher-- and
a bunch of artists were donating their services.

Rekha: Yeah, fuck those guys. [Laughing]

Ayes Cold: It was really hard because you know she and I connected just from our
Chennai connections.

Rekha: And how did you how do you respond to this?.

Ayes Cold: Well to be real with you, I had to make up a little bit of an excuse. I
mean I told her that you know, this is in some ways still my livelihood.
But I basically said that I can't afford to bring equipment without being
paid. I said I need to rent sound equipment etc.

Rekha: If there was equipment, would you do it for free?

Ayes Cold: Would I have done it for free? You know I haven't done a free gig in a
year. It feels like years. So I don't know. But I did make her a playlist for
free.

Rekha: Yeah, it's a compromise.

Ayes Cold: Yeah.

Rekha: So you book your own gigs?

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Ayes Cold: Yes. Yeah. I book my own gigs. I used to have somebody who would
help me negotiate the rates.

Rekha: Did that help?

Ayes Cold: It made me more bold to ask for the same money after this person and
I stopped working together. It set a precedent.

Rekha: They asked for more and then you realized you could get more.

Ayes Cold: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Rekha: You said when you started like you went from art parties to getting
really really busy. And, what did you attribute that to do you think?

Ayes Cold: Actually I would attribute it to multiple things. One I would say being at
the right place at the right time. I think that it sounds like a cliche but I
do think that timing is really important. I think in D.C., as far as like the
evolution of the music scene goes in D.C., I think there was a turning
point where people were just starting to play, to bring more obscure
music on the dance floor. And when I say obscure Internet music, you
know certain artists who were gaining followings through platforms like
SoundCloud etc.

There were some deejays doing that but more in the context of
warehouse parties and house parties and their own nights. But there
really was no precedent for that at the time and so when I started doing
that at my shows people couldn't help but find it intriguing.

I felt like on some level I was playing music they'd never heard. And
people. So people, that added you know that added some degree of
interest I think, and also like people would talk about sets that I would
do because of that aspect. You know I was playing things that were just

102
 added in there that were creating a unique memorable listening
experience too I think for them.

Second it was also again an issue related a matter of timing. But in a

different way, which is that at the time there really were, there still are,
just it's a really finite handful of women DJs in D.C. at bars and clubs.
And I think at that time the fact that I was a woman bringing some of
this novel music to dance floors, it only enhanced my visibility. But I do
think it was like those two things reinforcing each other in a way
because I don't think alone me just being a woman doing it would have
been enough.

Rekha: So do you think the visibility got you the gig, but then...

Ayes Cold: Visibility I think helped open doors for sure. Yeah the visibility around
being a woman, and also perhaps tokenistic attempts to include more
women on bills and stuff. But even at that moment, like in 2013, 1 don't
think that conversation about booking more women was as, you know,
in full speed as I feel like it's been in the last two years.

Rekha: So do you think there's more conversation around the need to book
women today?

Ayes Cold: Yeah definitely I see it. I mean I see it happening more in digital
spaces, conversations around that, you know, just the multiple
multitude of social media platforms, you see that happening on and off
a lot. There's not enough for sure but also that conversation is
happening. It actually needs to be calm, a nuanced conversation in
many ways, and I think there is an oversimplification of that.

Rekha: What you mean?

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Ayes Cold: Well I think that you know people are like: book more women. But then
what about people who are nonbinary or trans etc.? People who don't
fit the sort of mold of like "woman DJ" that is, you know.

Rekha: What is that mold?

Ayes Cold: The mold. I mean I think though like the woman DJ angle that has been
desirable from a marketing perspective historically has been a super
femme image of a woman DJ and a cis woman image of a woman DJ.
So basically anybody not in that category is still you know pressured to
fall to market themselves and brand themselves in that category or just
not be seen you know.

I mean I have a lot of thoughts about this but this notion of getting more
women on bills has still favored and continues to favor women who
bring, who play to unintentionally or into or intentionally certain
aesthetic preferences of cis men for the most part and mostly cis white
men.

So there's that but there are other things too. Like, for instance, I don't
know, just from having an experience doing talent booking at a
nightclub, I've been in situations where I want to book a woman opener
for a certain night and I've been in a situation where I've been like, well
in this specific niche or genre or vibe I can't really think of women who
would do... who I would call, who I could confidently book.

Rekha: Have you been involved in any way to cultivate or mentor?

Ayes Cold: Yeah. Definitely.

Rekha: Do people come up to you and say hey, you know...

Ayes Cold: Definitely. I've had mentees. I've had aspiring women DJs come to my
house and play on my equipment. I've donated to organizations'
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 equipment, organizations like Words Beats and Life that actually do
work with a lot of women. I've been on radio shows hosted by women
about women musicians.

I speak about my own experiences dealing with the challenges of

perception around what you do.

Rekha: Speak about it now.

Ayes Cold: Well, um..

Rekha: You have a microphone.

Ayes Cold: I know, I know, it's a, it's a...

Rekha: You want to take a break for a minute.

Ayes Cold: Yeah, maybe.

Rekha: We've been talking for a long time.

Ayes Cold: Yeah, I've been talking...

Rekha: So I mean we've got a lot of great stuff and we can wrap it up. I mean
the last question or last round was just, so have you thrown your own
events?

Ayes Cold: I have. Yeah I used to. I used to do a residency. It was a Tropicalia
party actually, and at Velvet Lounge.

Rekha: So was it a residency that you were the resident deejay or were you
involved in the creative aspects of it as well, like the night.

105
Ayes Cold: Yeah. It was both and both were flexible spaces. But I have to say that
both were very challenging.

Rekha: How so?

Ayes Cold: The first residency that I had was at this tiny dive bar called Velvet
Lounge in D.C., its capacities is probably like no more than like 70
people. And I started with my friend, Native Son. So it was like we were
tag teaming here, which was great because we both shared the labor in
a certain sense. But I was always more creative direction and he had a
lot more DJ friends, so he would basically invite the special guests and
I would make the flyers. I proposed the name of the party. You know so
some of the....

Rekha: What was the name of the party?

Ayes Cold: It's called Underwater D.C. And that the vibe was anything goes but
keeping it fluid musically. And those parties were really successful and
I think those were actually really key to cementing me as a DJ in the
D.C. DJ scene, people knowing where to find me every first and third
Wednesday of the month. Regularity.

Rekha: Yeah, regularity.

Ayes Cold: Regularity. Those were great. But the pay was never, it was always
hard to get paid, always.

Rekha: Why?

Ayes Cold: Because the club owner was very lax and still is very lax about paying
his DJs on time and paying them fairly. It was just shady, you know.
Like the bookkeeping was shady. It just never made sense. We'd
packed the joint on certain nights. So we curated the vibe. We curated
the music. We curated the guests.
106
Rekha: What's the vibe? How do you curate a vibe?

Ayes Cold: You curate a vibe by, it's a combination of aesthetics and sonics. I
would say so. You curate the vibe by the styles, the music that you
play. You also curate the vibe around your flyers. The artwork for the
event. It kind of sets a tone. So we use a lot of like watery images.
We'd use a lot of images of space. Definitely some esoteric sort of
imagery. Sometimes DJ Underdog would do a flyer occasionally but for
the most part it was just me playing with my own Illustrator and
Photoshop skills. I felt like I did a lot of work for those parties.

Rekha: Did you feel like the work was evenly distributed?

Ayes Cold: Sometimes. No.

Rekha: And, why not?

Ayes Cold: Because I felt like it really was...

Rekha: Was it gendered, or not?

Ayes Cold: I mean, yes, absolutely. I'm thinking about the aesthetics. And he would
think about just hitting up his friend on the phone and his friend who's
already a DJ would just come and play. I think I was thinking more big
picture. And he was thinking like just who he knew in his phone book.
You know different. Different.

Rekha: Did he want to just have his friends in the room and you wanted to
have....

Ayes Cold: You know actually to his credit he had pretty on point taste. And so the
friends in the room were actually DJs, a lot of them are producers who I
was already aware of and had listened to their stuff and thought would

107
 be great additions like him. It was a great relationship in that we had a
working relationship.

I just started feeling like the issue of money... It always felt like a labor
of love and never just, never worth, I mean after a certain point, I
started questioning the time commitment to first and third Wednesdays,
making artwork, promoting, spending late nights... we would go until
3:00 in the morning. Ten to three, just DJing so many hours. All for 75
bucks at the end of the night? Are you kidding me?

Rekha: Seriously.

Ayes Cold: Yeah. So.

Rekha: But you know, it's a build, right?

Ayes Cold: Yeah. Then I tried doing my own residency, like my own party. It was
the summer of 2017 at Tropicalia. I was doing, every Thursday I was
there.

Just never, you know, with a two hundred capacity room and just never
filled up. Just never filled up. Thursdays were jinxed at that club
though.

Rekha: Oh, yeah. Trying to think if I did Thursday. Yeah. I did. Mostly
weekends.

Ayes Cold: Yeah the weekends were the best nights. But you had to also be able
to cater to their weekend crowd. Yeah. Other eye rolling experience
sometimes.

Rekha: Definitely. Well I mean I think that's, we've talked about so many
different things. Even after it started recording and some before, notes
on it.
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Ayes Cold: Yes. At the very least you know me better, you know.

.
Rekha: Oh definitely. I mean it's why I'm doing this, because this is the shit I
like ... Anything you want to add?

Ayes Cold: Yeah I guess I want to add that right now I I feel like I'm at another
crossroads in my career and in my life where I have in some ways
taken a step back from regular DJing because, just concerns that I've
had about my own health and personal well-being.

Rekha: Say more.

Ayes Cold: Well I started realizing that, the late nights adding up were just taking a
toll on my physical health. I just don't do well with several late nights in
a row. It was messing up my eating, the way I would eat. It was
messing up the way I would sleep. And that was leading to a
depression.

Rekha: It's interesting. Yeah, it's a hard lifestyle.

Ayes Cold: It is. And I was able to do it up until very recently. I moved to New York
in May from D.C. And I think that was the right intervention for me. I
now work a 9 to 5 job. Barely a 9 to 5. It's more like a 10 to whenever I
want to leave. Very flexible. I really do love working in a place
surrounded by music producers because I am trying to ramp up my
own skills as a music producer, mainly so I can release my own tracks.

Rekha: And do you make your own music? Have you produced?

Ayes Cold: Yeah I've been producing since 2015 but I've always felt like there's
been a little bit of a hump that has been hard to get over. Like a ceiling
to the skills I can actually acquire without making a concrete
investments in getting to the next level. And when I say investments, I
mean having the capital to actually purchase certain kinds of equipment
109
 or the not just physical capital, social capital professional capital, to
access certain kinds of more expert knowledge around music
production.

Rekha: Do you feel like that knowledge is hard to get?

Ayes Cold: Very hard to get to if you are, well, in my situation, I found it very hard
to even sometimes just sit down and make the time to do youtube
tutorials, to learn techniques that, just hacks really.

Rekha: Right.

Ayes Cold: There is, there is a lot of it. There is a lot of knowledge in producer
circles but a lot of this knowledge is concentrated in the hands of men.

Rekha: Yes.

Ayes Cold: And to access or tap into that knowledge you've really got to integrate
yourself into like a crew of producers. This seems to be how it goes to
really be able to benefit from the knowledge of other people. Because
people don't share that knowledge unless you get in with them. And, as
a woman it's been very hard to do that because of perceptions.

Rekha: What are the perceptions?

Ayes Cold: Perceptions are that you don't know as much as they do, the
perceptions that you know you're a girl in a traditionally male field or
space. I've been in situations where I've felt awkward around other men
making music and it's really hard to kind of step away from some of the
insecurity that I've harbored around my own skills as a music producer
given that I did not grow up making music. It's almost like music
production is a boys' club and you can enter that boys' club as a boy,
pretty early in life. If that's something you're interested in at the age of
16. So a lot of producers who we know have been making music since
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 they were 16. As a 16 year old girl, you are socialized to do other things
for the most part. And you're not typically making or playing video
games and music-making is more associated with gaming culture too I
think.

Rekha: Do you think there's a boys' club in the DJ circles too?

Ayes Cold: Oh yeah, absolutely. But I think it's a similar phenomenon. Being able
to really get to that next level in your skills does take tapping into the
knowledge of other people who are more experienced than you. And,
also giving yourself the time, lots of time, and space to actually
experiment and practice.

Rekha: Time is such a commodity in capitalism.

Ayes Cold: Yeah so I'm at this point where I'm like all right, I'm at Splice every day.
Every day I'm learning something new and allowing myself to actually
take in knowledge that I otherwise wouldn't have access to right, as a
producer.

Rekha: That's great.

Ayes Cold: And so I'm OK with the DJing slowing down because I feel like there
still is a new flow you know. Not to say that I don't want to continue
DJing. I love it but I've had to, you know.

Rekha: What do you say in terms of, as an artist, what is your main medium? Is
it DJing? Or is it...?

Ayes Cold: Right now I would say it's still DJing until I actually have evidence of
actually being a producer.

Rekha: Well okay, yeah, well, we'll be ready for it.

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Ayes Cold: Hell, yes! I appreciate that. Stay ready.

Ayes Cold: Thank you.

Rekha: Thank you.

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Interview Transcript:

JADALAREIGN

113
 (Edited) Interview with JADALAREIGN

Rekha: Let's just get started. I'm just going to ask you about your
background. So, where did you grow up? Where are you from?

JADALAREIGN: I was born in Summit, New Jersey. My mother is from Newark.

My father's from Brooklyn. I spent the first year of my life in
Irvington, New Jersey and then I moved to a town called
Mahopac, which is in Putnam County, which is about an hour
north of Manhattan.

Rekha: I know where that is. I did a gig there and I did not realize how
f'ing far it was.

JADALAREIGN: Oh my goodness. Oh my God. I've never told somebody where I

was from and they knew the town. So that's crazy. Yeah. Very
suburban, predominantly white. Small town. So, that's where I
grew up. I was there until I graduated high school and then I
moved to Manhattan for college. And then I've been in the city
ever since. I'm in Brooklyn now.

Rekha: If I may ask, where did you go to college?

JADALAREIGN: So I started at Hunter and then I went, I transferred to LIM

College, which is a fashion business school. I wanted to, I
started off when I was younger playing instruments and things
like that. Around college, I really wanted to get into design. So I
did that for a few years. My school required us to do a lot of
internships in the industry. That's when I realized that it wasn't
something that I wanted to pursue as a career. I think the
industry aspect kind of made me hate it. After that, that's when I
reconnected with music and I started learning how to DJ.

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Rekha: Okay, we're going to get to that. Let's talk about the instruments
that you play.

JADALAREIGN: So the first instrument I played was the acoustic bass. I started
when I was, going to say ten. I played for five or six years. I also
dabbled a little bit with piano and guitar as well.

Rekha: So just going to show the background and then we'll get into how
you got into DJing. What kind of music did you hear at home
whether with your family or siblings or your community? And,
was that different from what you heard at school? What are your
musical memories, in terms of the music that was around you?

JADALAREIGN: I am biracial, so my mom is black and my father's white. They

come from two different worlds and their musical influences are
very different as well. My mother, she grew up in the church so
she was a pianist and a singer, and she had a very eclectic.
taste in music that I can recall. So it was like, from Slave and the
whole disco and funk era to Led Zeppelin and a lot of rock, and
then to African and Brazilian music. It was like very very diverse
gospel. I pretty much listened to everything under the sun while I
was with my mother.

Then with my father, he was into a lot of just classic rock like
Bruce Springsteen and Billy Joel and that kind of stuff. And, then
you know I grew up in a suburban white town. So then, the
Hustle. The influence of a lot of the top 40 and radio stuff that
was going on and mainstream rap and pop and... So I had a very
very diverse eclectic musical palette as a child.

Rekha: Could you hone in a little for me on the time period-- like school,
the top 40, rap, what eras?

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JADALAREIGN: I started High School in 05. That was around like Ashanti,
JaRule and like that era with the G Unit and Dipset and all that
stuff. Yeah.

Rekha: Do you have any kind of first memories of DJing, or not of DJing,
but seeing a DJ, being around a DJ, or, is there a conscious
memory of that? You might not have one.

JADALAREIGN: You know there is never a moment where I was like I saw
another DJ playing and I was like, wow I really want to do that. It
was just, it formed out of just a deep appreciation for a vast
types of music. And, a vast influence of music. So, I wouldn't say
I had a defining moment. Any moment now. Yeah.

Rekha: So for folks that are older, it's more of a thing, that first time or
something... now we're in it you know. Like the first time you saw
a glass of water, you really can't isolate that. So, how did you
learn how to become a DJ. What was your process, your story?

JADALAREIGN: When I was in college as I was figuring out that I hated the
fashion industry I was still very much involved with music on a
personal level. Just because you know, it's my therapy and just
everything. So around that time when I was in college, I was
doing a lot of digging on Soundcloud and immersing myself in
local producers and a lot more underground stuff because I had
become a little bit more disenchanted with mainstream music.
And also just like doing my own research because there is a lot
of stuff that, a lot of music that I wasn't exposed to as a child,
that I was kind of like doing my own research on and figuring out
a lot of early hip-hop and still stuff like that. My mom didn't listen
to a lot of hip-hop so I was kind of doing that research for myself,
before college and early on in college. So, I was just really
immersing myself in a lot of different types of music and hanging
out with a lot of friends that were doing the same. And I had
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 this one producer friend, one day, and I had thought about
DJing and production kind of together as something that I
wanted to try out.

But I always had this idea in my head, it was still really new for
me at least for what I was exposed to, to see a woman in that
field. So it was kind of something that I just put in the back of my
mind like, oh that would be something cool to pursue but I
never really took it seriously. And then a friend of mine, one day
we were hanging out just like you know chopping it up,
listening to music. I was playing him like some new stuff that I
had found and he said, you know you'd be really good at DJing,
have you ever given it a try? And that's when I like, which kind of
sucks , not that I'm saying that he validated that for me but that
was what kind of made me like, okay, if somebody else thinks
that this is something that I could be good at, I may as well give
it a try.

So, He connected me with a different friend of his that gave me

my first DJ lesson. And, the first lesson I had, it was
like: what the fuck is like, what is all of this? He sat me down in
front of...

Rekha: Your friend introduced you to another one of his friends. And he
gave you your first DJ lesson.

JADALAREIGN: Yes. And, I was just like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. He
had a turntable setup. So, it was really hard for me the first time I
sat down with it. But, it was something that I knew that I wanted
to conquer. So I had met with him a couple more times. The
more I spent time with him, the more really intrigued I was. And, I
would leave and want to go home and still mess around with it.
So I got a controller. And I just became obsessed with the whole
thing. And then, I like serendipitously got a gig a few months
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 later. A friend of mine was looking for a DJ for some event. He
owned a bar. I probably wasn't ready but I went back to the guy
that had been giving me the lessons. And I asked him for
pointers and I, you know, I'm like, I got my first gig, is there
anything any knowledge that you can impart on me that might
help make it easier? It was like, four hours too or something
ridiculous for the first time. It was ridiculous. Like what.

Rekha: What controller did you get?

JADALAREIGN: I got a Pioneer DDJ SR, I think. Not the small one but like the
middle.

Rekha: The professional two-channel one, right? Not the entry one,
which is an SB.

JADALAREIGN: Right right right. I got the second one and so.

Rekha: And so that works with Serato.

JADALAREIGN: Correct. Yeah I had been learning on Serato so I went back to

him and I asked him for some pointers and the first thing he said
to me was, "[W]ow you got a gig. Power of the pussy." And that
kind of like really fucked me up. I was just like, just because I
was already feeling vulnerable even learning how to DJ. And
then I got in this position where I was getting really excited about
it thanks to this guy. And then I got a gig and I just felt like, I
don't know, it's kind of like the air out of my tires.

So I think after that conversation with him was the last time I hit
him up after that. I just felt like this is just not somebody that I
wanted to include in my journey. So I went. I did the gig. I was
probably too prepared. And I did really well for my first time. I

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 think I got paid like $450 or something, something that I would
even be happy with now if I got that booking.

Rekha: Me too and I have been doing this for almost 30 years.

JADALAREIGN: Right. So you know that was exciting for me because I didn't
fuck it up and I got paid a nice penny and I was like, no this is
dope. I know I'm not in a place where I need to be but I want to
keep working towards this because this is something I can see
myself doing.

Rekha: What do you remember what you played? Can you tell me more
about the gig? Like, where was it...?

JADALAREIGN: Yeah sure. It was at the spot, it's called Durden Bar. It's a sports
bar on the Lower East Side. I think maybe 12th Street and Third
Avenue or somewhere around there. It was just like, it might
even have been, it was a Thursday or Friday, Friday night. There
was some big game on TV. I don't really pay attention to sports
so I don't know exactly even what sport. But there were a lot of
people there excited about the game. And my library at the time
just consisted of a lot of mainstream. Well, at least for this gig, I
was like, let me play it safe and play mainstream Top 40 radio,
bar-friendly type stuff with a little bit of classic hip-hop and
throwbacks mixed in. Right. So it ended up being great. I got a
couple of requests, which I was able to accommodate which was
cool. And yeah. Went pretty well. Yes.

So after that I was like OK I want to keep learning and practicing

and getting better but I don't want to do it with him. So after that I
signed myself up for a class at Scratch Academy. Because I was
like, I'm not going to leave my destiny in the hands of a man.
Also because he's a DJ that's been doing this for like at this point
already 20 years or something. So I felt really insecure about
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 the fact that he's somebody that I potentially could have really
looked up to. But I couldn't. Well, let me just go take a class in
an official capacity. I went and I signed up for the class. It was
like an intensive course over six weeks that met twice a week.

Rekha: When was this?

JADALAREIGN: This was in 2005. I'm sorry, not 2005. 2015.

Rekha: I was going to say you was in middle school then.

JADALAREIGN: No, this is 2015. So yes I signed up for the class. And it was
great. I love Scratch Academy. I love the way that they teach. It's
interesting because the majority of the classes like Principles,
that I had already known, but it was cool to be able to go and
practice on turntables. The six weeks went by very quickly. The
last class we had a little showcase kind of and everybody puts
together a quick five minute set or whatever, three or four songs.
And we demonstrated in front of the class. And, me with my
highly self-critical nature I'm stressing myself out about this five
song set and like, freaking out and practicing a bunch at home.
Then I did my set in front of the class and the teacher was like,
No, that's an example of a perfect SAMPLER set. And I was like,
so geeked. So you know that like made me feel a lot better about
the previous situation. And then from there, I kind of felt good
enough to go back home keep practicing. I did a lot of research
on YouTube and I bought some books about DJing and...

Rekha: Do you remember the books you bought?

JADALAREIGN: Yeah. What is that? There's this... I think it was written by Jam
Master Jay. it's like the Scratch Academy guide. You probably
know which book I'm talking right?. So I bought that book that
was ... ?
120
Rekha: How did you get it? [...] Oh here it is, On the record.

JADALAREIGN: Yeah exactly. That's exactly the one.

Rekha: See my pile right there.

JADALAREIGN: Yeah. I kind of just felt comfortable enough to keep working

through that stage. From there, I want to say I gave myself a
good six, seven months of just really going hard, practicing at
home a lot. Every single day. And after a point I was like, alright I
want to get some live, I want to get more live practice. So I had
been working with this women-owned, women-ran entertainment
blog called Strawberry Blonde. It was like a hip-hop and
entertainment blog that was making really dope moves in the city
around that time. I got with them in 2012. This was like just
before, a couple of years before I actually decided to try DJing. I
was their music editor. Through working with them, I had
developed a pretty extensive network of contacts, like people in
the industry, media personalities, other artists and producers and
event curators and blah blah blah. So I went to my network and I
was like, "Look I'm gonna be a DJ. I recorded some mixes. Here
they are. If you want to book me I'll do for free. I just want to start
gigging."

I remember the next gig I had after that was at this do it yourself,
like this really shitty venue in Brooklyn, I forget what it's called.
It's like a spot that's a coffee shop during the day. I think it's
called Much Mores. It was just like this makeshift, there was
nobody there. There's 20 people there. Yeah, that was my
second gig. That was fun. And then from there it was kind of just
like I do these gigs. I meet people and then those people would
have another gig that they want to book me for. So I was kind of

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 just doing the three gig thing for a little while. And momentum
picking up pretty quickly.

I feel like around that time there was this new generation of
women DJs starting out but there was a lot of us. Well, it was an
exciting time. I feel like it was kind of a novelty thing to book a
Woman DJ around that time but I didn't mind because I wanted
to just get my name out. And then a friend of mine, he's a rapper.
He had a tour. He had a DJ for his tour but there were like two
stops where his DJ wasn't going to be there. So he asked me if I
wanted to DJ those two stops. Once again, this is like super
early on in my career. I wasn't actually opening for him. I was
literally only playing his set. So I did that. That was fun. I went to
two cities in California. When from there I was like, okay I think
I'm good to start accepting paid gigs now.

Rekha: You did this just to build and then after this you start getting paid.
So you were just trying to do gigs to get some live practice.

JADALAREIGN: And to just get my name out and meet more people, and
immerse myself more in the scene.

Rekha: Can you, just for the record, before I forget something: Give me
your government name and give your DJ name.

JADALAREIGN: Yes. So my government name is Jada Lorraine Haytough and

my DJ name is JADALAREIGN. It's spelled a little bit differently.
JADALAREIGN

Rekha: That's your DJ name. Basically your real name.

JADALAREIGN: So essentially it's my first and my middle name. But you

know, I just tried to jazz it up and not make it so. first and middle
name -looking. Also right around the time that I was learning to
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 DJ, my grandmother passed away. I was named after her. Her
name is Lorraine. She was also very musically involved. She
played the drums up until she was like 72 or whatever. So it was
kind of like my homage to her as well, in a way that she passed
like right before I started gigging.

Rekha: We'll go back to the journey after this rap tour towards DJing or
dropping tracks. You came back to New York then?

JADALAREIGN: Yes, I came back to New York. This was probably now like June
2016.

Rekha: So then what happened?

JADALAREIGN: From there I was getting both. It's funny because I learned how
to DJ on turntables, my first experience ever with DJing was on
turntables and then when I went to Scratch, I was using
turntables. But I didn't have anywhere to practice on turntables
and I'm just very self-conscious and I like to be prepared for
things. So, I was still carrying my controller to my gig. I didn't
really know how to set up turntables on my own or how to set up
a Serato box. There was like one class [at Scratch] where they
ran through how to set up turntables. But I never had hands on
experience doing it myself. You know it's kind of just like a
demonstration. And you know how it is, every club is different,
every setup is different. So you have to do trial and error one
hundred times to know all of the different setups and different
situations that you could be put in when you get to the club. For
the first year of my paid gig journey, I was still carrying my
controller everywhere, trying to get as much practice as I could
wherever I could, on turntables because I really prefer the feel of
turntables more than anything else as well. But I just didn't want
to put myself in a position where I'm doing something live and it's
not sounding as good because I didn't have the practice. After a
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 while I made that my priority. I was like, okay, I'm going to do
what I have to do and figure out a way to be able to gig on
whatever equipment is at the venue.

Also because there is this like all of this discourse on Twitter

about new DJs and new DJs and Controller DJs, and I don't
want to be a Controller DJ especially because I don't really like
playing on my controller every minute, carrying this shit with me.
I love turntables so I wanted, it was it was something that I felt
the pressure, but I really also wanted to do it for myself. So I
bought myself my slip mats and my vinyl and my needles. At one
point I was like, alright I'm just going to start showing up to my
gigs and play on the turntables and get my practice that way. I'm
not gonna let it stop me.

I started doing that. I think I probably had a low-key gig at Bed-

Vyne or a Casablanca or something like that. I brought my set
up, and I used it as practice. There wasn't very many people
there and I was like, oh, I don't sound terrible, why? I can
continue to do this. So I made that my priority and I did the same
for CDJs and I made sure I knew how to set everything up and
how to do the Serato box and all that stuff. So that was the next
lap of my journey, figuring out how to be able to really have
versatility with my setup.

Rekha: What was the worst gig you ever had?

JADALAREIGN: What was the worst gig I ever had?

Rekha: And, that's followed up by what was the best gig you ever had?

JADALAREIGN: I never had a gig where I completely fucking bombed. But I do

remember this one time that left me scorn for a little while
because I could tell this other DJ was judging me. First of all, I
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 showed up late. I showed up ten minutes after my set was
supposed to start. That was bad.
Second of all, I brought my controller when I told him that I was
using turntables because I ended up like last minute being like I
don't want to make a fool of myself. Because it was at a venue
where there was a stage and everybody's looking at you and I
was like don't even do it to yourself like. There's just so much
like insecurity when you start out as a DJ. I don't know what your
experience was because you've been doing it a lot longer than
me but so much insecurity especially when you're dealing with
men.

Rekha: Tell me more about this. So the DJ was a guy?

JADALAREIGN: Yes so the guy that booked me, this was his party series, an
established party series. I don't think he ever heard me play. But
you know I was making a lot of buzz around the time. And you
know, I showed up, I told him I was going to use the turntables. I
got really insecure and I was like, just bring my controller. I
brought my controller but I didn't have a USB cable. So then I
was like I'm going to use the controller and he's like play, set it
up whatever. I didn't have a cable so he had to go run and find
me a cable. And plus I was late. I could just feel like his energy
from those two factors alone. So I was just really insecure my
whole set. I don't know, it was just a very high pressure situation.
I felt really uncomfortable the whole time. And when I feel
uncomfortable, no matter how much I prepare for that, if I feel
uncomfortable and the energy is not right in the moment I'm
going to just bomb. I didn't bomb but I didn't do as great as I
wanted to. And this is a DJ I respect and he never booked me
again after that. Like, never booked me again after that.

It always bothered me because I was like I had a really shitty set

that one time. But then in the past year, this past year he's seen
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me play a couple of times and congratulated me and told me I
did a great job, which was gratifying. But that one set gave me
nightmares for a while.

And then for my best ever: This past December, this DJ that I
worked closely with, A friend of mine inside and outside the
industry, we got booked to do a back to back set for this festival
in Mexico. So we went to, it was then, Acapulco. The festival is
called Tropical Festival. I don't know if you've ever heard of it but
it takes place on this resort in Acapulco over three days. And
they had us doing a primetime set for their beach party. This
party that we had worked with before, they were doing a pop up
party at the festival, and they had booked us. They did a party on
the beach that Saturday night in this tent. And they're known for
doing disco and house parties. And I was excited about that
because I feel, not that i got pigeonholed into a Top 40 scene in
New York, but, I just get booked for a lot of Top 40 type gigs. I
don't always get booked for disco and house gigs so that was
really exciting for me because I love disco and house music. And
yeah it was incredible.

I still use Serato. I don't know how to use CDJS with USBs yet.
That's like my next dragon then I want to slay. So the Serato
wasn't working with the CDJs for some reason. We had to play
internally but the energy was just incredible and we were so well
received. Our sets were amazing. It was on the beach in Mexico
with this huge disco ball and these lights and like everybody just
having, it was just so much fun and the people loved us. I feel
like, the reception overseas is just, you know how it is, it is so
different and just so much more exciting. And just inspiring. So
yeah exactly, my favorite gig thus far.

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Rekha: Is DJing your primary artistic medium? Do you work in other
other genres, like do any other kind of art stuff? Or is this what
you do, other things?

JADALAREIGN: I'm pretty creative overall but DJing is my main thing. I've really
been trying to incorporate more mediums into my DJ career if
that makes sense. So I really started planning--I'm going be
doing this mixed series. And so for the cover art, I have this
vision to recreate old 70s album artwork. So I just shot. I don't
know if you can recall the Funkadelic cover where the girls like
leaning back and it's a blue background. It's Free Your Mind and
Your Ash Will Follow. I just recreated that with a photographer.
So I'm going to use that for a cover for my mix.

I have mentioned I used to be into fashion and design and I draw

and paint a lot during my childhood so it's just something I want
to incorporate this too. And just elevate the experience I feel like
you know artists put a lot of work into their home. Why shouldn't
DJs as well, you know what I mean. Just make it a full
experience.

Rekha: So do you do a lot of pre-recorded, like you put out mixes a lot,
or have you?

JADALAREIGN: I have mixes out. I'm like. Here comes up fucking highly self-
critical artists again. I'm such a perfectionist with mixes so like
even there have been times where I'll sit down to record a mix.
And I'll have everything prepared and it's like I'll have a really lit
tracklist. And I'll just never put it out because there's like one
transition that I just wasn't keen on.

Rekha: I hate recording remixes. I hate all of it. I always hear mistakes.

JADALAREIGN: Exactly.
127
Rekha: I agree. You don't need to explain. I get it. I get it. No it's hard. I
mean I've had to do mixes a handful of times for like BBC Radio
Asian Network. It's like the South Asian thing. It's taken me like,
I mean I did it old school. I used to have a double CD player.
And record it in real time and then from the point where I fucked
up, play it in real time and record from that place. It would take
forever.

JADALAREIGN: Oh my goodness.

Rekha: Yeah. I mean a lot of times mixes are now done digitally right.
But I would do a technical mix and then every time I'd fuck up.
Like let's say I fuck up 15 minutes into the mix. Instead of doing
the whole mix over, I would wait to that part again and then catch
it and then try to keep going ...

JADALAREIGN: I'd be recording n Serato. Okay I was good up until here. Let me
re-record this. And then I'll start mixing the rest of it.

Rekha: So when you when you play like you're using now, you're
versatile and DJs and turntables and controllers, which is
basically the Serato platform. Is there a way to describe your
style? What do you do? Do you blend more do you cut like. I
mean not having heard you live-- What's the experience like? Do
you scratch. Do you talk on the mike? What is your actual DJ
performance, if there's a way to characterize?

JADALAREIGN: It really depends. Like I said I still play a lot of like

mainstream gigs which isn't necessarily my preference but it
really depends on the gig. So when I'm doing the more
mainstream gigs I'll get on the mic I'll do scratching and cutting
and all those kinds of things. But when I'm doing a gig where I'm
playing dance music, where I'm playing like house music and
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 just incorporating a Caribbean and Afro beat, Afro house and all
that stuff that I love then, I'm like definitely blend. I mean, for
sure, I do a lot of blending with that.

Rekha: So when you do the more mainstream gigs, you feel more
pressure to talk on the mike and scratch more. Do you think?

JADALAREIGN: I mean I feel like that is just in those scenarios, it's easier to
engage with the crowd when you're talking on the mic and you're
doing tricks and things like that because I feel like that audience,
you really have to work on them more so than somebody that's
just coming out to hear music and dance. Like they're going to
come and enjoy themselves regardless as long as the music is
good. Well like in a mainstream scenario, like certain venues I
just stay away from because I know that it's the way it's going to
be and that's what's gonna be expected of me and that's not
always my favorite. But then at other times I do like it. It can be
exciting but I feel like in those scenarios, the crowds are more
fickle so those are just foolproof ways to get more engagement
and to drum up more excitement in the room.

Rekha: Do you think it's important for a DJ to do that?

JADALAREIGN: I think it's important for a DJ to be able to understand their

audience. So you know the audience isn't always going to
require that but just being able to have an intuition to know what
your audience needs is definitely really important.

Rekha: So when you say there are certain venues you stay away from,
is it just the audience? Is there anything else about the venue
you don't like? Or is it more like the gig...

JADALAREIGN: I mean it's mostly the audience. I mean I know what to expect
from certain venues. In terms of the type of people that are
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 gonna be there and it's not always just a matter of having to
work harder to get them excited. Some venues I know that they
have a certain type of misogynistic predator crowd. So I know
the women that follow me and follow my career and like to come
out and hear me play. I don't want to play there because they're
not going to be comfortable because there's creeps there.

Rekha: Have you ever felt...

JADALAREIGN: But most often it's the crowd.

Rekha: Right. But the crowd is, maybe it's the crowd and...

JADALAREIGN: Definitely.

Rekha: . . whether the space is safe for your audience. Who is your
audience? Do you have your following or fan base? If there is, or
maybe it varies gig to gig?

JADALAREIGN: I would say my audience is mostly people of color. From ages- I

have some young followers too though I would say from like
ages twenty one to thirty five. That's my core audience.

Rekha: And have you ever felt unsafe. DJing?

JADALAREIGN: Yes. So I'm glad you asked because I always go back to this one
story. I mean as women in a male dominated industry there was
always undertones of like men patronizing you and just you
know how that is. But there is this one instance where the whole
thing was messed up.

So I had a gig. I was actually DJing for this artist. We stopped

working together just because she kind of moved her live
performances in a more live music aspect. So she plays the
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guitar now. But there was a six month period where we were
gigging together and I would open for her and then I would DJ
her set. She was doing a showcase at Bowery Electric. We went
early to set up. They didn't have--this is around the time I didn't
have a Serato box yet. The venue didn't have Serato so I had to
bring my controller. So I brought my controller and I brought my
headphones. And we went early. I set up my equipment.
We had to leave the spot and go. So we went to like Tidal, or
something-- she had an interview.

There was like a 30 minute period where my stuff was left at the
venue because the event hadn't started yet. The soundtech had
assured me there's no other DJs. Nobody's going to be in the
booth; your stuff will be fine. So I leave myself set up. We did a
soundcheck. I left everything hooked up. When the interview
came back, there was another DJ in the booth. And so I go up to
the booth and I'm sure he's using my equipment. He was using
my equipment of course. And I noticed that my headphones
were literally split into two pieces like down the middle. Broken
and half into two pieces. And. I was just like what the fuck. Like,
what is going on. So, I'm like what is going on. This is my
equipment.

Long story short, he said that the soundtech told him that he can
use the equipment. And so I approached the soundtech because
he's the one who assured me that my stuff would be safe. At the
end of the day, I shouldn't have left my stuff there-- lesson
learned. But I approach the sound guy and I was visibly upset.
I'm like what's going on, this guy's using my equipment. You told
me it would be safe. Now my headphones are split in half. This
needs to be reconciled. What is going on.

The showcase is going on at this point so there's nothing really

that can be done at that very moment. So I'm pissed off. The
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 event happens. I run through my artist set without headphones.
And then at the end of the night-- also the artist, her manager
was there and he's really good. So he, at the end of the night,
we went to the sound guy and we're like, look my headphones
were damaged on your watch. Something needs to be done
about this. And he said to me, We're not replacing your
headphones and if you ever speak to me like that again. I will
slap the shit out of you. This is a fifttysomething year old
white man.

I was appalled. I was in shock. First of all, I've never been

spoken to that way by somebody I didn't know. Period. So for
him, somebody that I'm supposed to be. dealing with in
professional capacity, for him to talk to me like that. And I wasn't
being disrespectful to him or anything. I was just, he could just
tell I was upset. And you know I had the right to be upset in that
instance. But I was just taken so, I was just like, I'm really in
shock. I really didn't know how to respond to that. I was just
enraged. And then at the same time I'm like, fuck, I'm here
representing this artist, I can't get crazy right now. I just maintain
composure and this, it'll be dealt with tomorrow. So I left. I left
the event. I just had to leave the venue and I was really upset. I
didn't realize, I would just like, in the middle of Third Avenue
broke down crying out of frustration that somebody would talk
to me that way. You know what I mean.

Rekha: The experience. It's not that long ago and I was looking for an
artist and the guy was being a dick to me and I had to control
myself because I don't want to look bad and also don't want to
burn a bridge. It was a douchy sound guy and I needed him to
play my visuals for me and he was wasn't doing it. And he was
being ...and I asked him if he could... I was trying to be nice as
you can. And, would he have talked to you that way if you were a
guy?
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JADALAREIGN: Absolutely not. And an artist manager reached out to the venue
and got in touch with the owner. I don't remember if it is the
owner, or the manager. Whoever it was, was a woman. And she
was adamant that no repercussions were going to be had for this
man. All they did was they made him issue, they emailed me an
apology. Which she didn't even try to make sound convincing
obviously but I was just like, this is the fact that it was a woman.
Like not even so much as take them off the schedule for a
couple weeks. Nothing was done.

Rekha: That's kind of upsetting because you know Mobile Monday

happens there. And you know Belinda's there. I mean whatever
her name is. Natha Diggs. Yeah. And that other woman, the
British lady -- she does it too.

JADALAREIGN: Oh yeah, Misbehavior..

Rekha: Man I had an opportunity to DJ there once and I got sick.

Anyway that's upsetting-- I'm so sorry that happened to you.
Well, that's definitely the worst gig. That's a good worst gig story.
And, so you handle most of your bookings yourself.

JADALAREIGN: Yeah. Pretty much all my bookings I handle myself.

Rekha: How often you would say in a month do you DJ?

JADALAREIGN: It varies. The beginning of this year has been unusually slow for
me which has been cool because I've been focusing on other
projects. I'm doing this workshop series which I've been thinking
about for a while, which has been getting great reception but in
general.

Rekha: What is it? Tell me more about it.

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JADALAREIGN: I'll circle back about the gigs but I basically organized this
workshop series centering women and queer people of color.
And it's for Women's Month. It's happening all of March. It's 12
workshops and discussions about different formats of DJing,
production, event production, community building.

Rekha: Wow. Amazing.

JADALAREIGN: ... professional development. And then I did one on collective

culture.

Rekha: Can I go? Where is it now?

JADALAREIGN: So it's being held at this place called Power Plant, which is in
Bushwick. It's like a community center when it's not being used
for workshops and events. It functions as a computer lab for the
kids that live in the community. I've literally only been promoting
it on Instagram and Twitter.

Rekha: I'll check your IG feed

JADALAREIGN: Everything's on Instagram.

Rekha: No I can't get with the times I'm like, where is the flyer?

JADALAREIGN: So far we've done two production basics with Logic. I did one
class on analog production with synthesizers and sequencers
and stuff like that. And then I did CDJ and Record Box basics
workshop. I did a Serato workshop and then this week I'm doing
Ableton.

I have a discussion on community building with a couple really

old people within my community and then I'm doing a collective
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 culture so I'm sitting down with this collective called rose gold
collective. And it's all Black women and nonbinary people of
color. A few of them are DJs. A couple of them do events and
video. So I'm going to sit down with them and talk about their
efforts together within the community with event production, how
they help each other to advance each other's brands and
careers and things like that.

Then the last one. I have one on Vinyl basics, and then the last
one at the end is going to be the last day of the month, it's on
professional development. So for young women or queer people
who are just starting out that need to know about setting rate
and securing gigs, and negotiating contracts and all of that
stuff. Tech riders and setting up, just like things that you wouldn't
necessarily know if you're just starting out and you don't have
that experience.

Rekha: Probably learned on the job.

JADALAREIGN: Exactly. Just like little tidbits that would definitely be useful to
somebody starting out so you don't get jerked and so you know
how to handle yourself in certain situations.

Rekha: Rimarkable has talked about doing a DJ blacklist of places

that have screwed you over. Do you feel a responsibility to pay it
forward or to pass on the knowledge?

JADALAREIGN: Oh yes definitely. Especially as a woman because it's just

something that's been on my mind for a while because of how
many instances I've been in where I'm like, fuck I wish I had
somebody that I could ask about this or somebody that could
recommend a venue that's good for this or ... you know what I
mean just so many times where I just wished I had somebody
that I could reach out to and asked those questions
135
 to. I think it's really important and I think it's important for women
to have resources and to have camaraderie and have
community and other people that they can talk to and interface
with and ask questions to and share experiences with. Even if it
is as small as me letting my peers know this is what happened to
me about Bowery Electric. You may not want to work... You
know what I mean. Stuff like that. And I start each workshop and
I tell everyone, look, this is a workshop but it's also a community
initiative. Make sure you're exchanging contact
information and stay close to these people because you never
know when you're going to meet somebody.

Rekha: And so do you feel part of a DJ community?

JADALAREIGN: Oh yeah, definitely. For sure.

Rekha: And you go to see other DJs performance and stuff.. .you
support each other.

JADALAREIGN: Yep. Absolutely.

Rekha: Have you created your own nights or anything, or put stuff
together that you have curated? And if so, tell me about that.

JADALAREIGN: Yes. So, my most recent thing: I put together this party with that
same friend of mine that I mentioned I went to Mexico with. Her
name's Niara Sterling. We produce a party called...

JADALAREIGN: It's called Perk. And we're just trying to bring an organic carefree
energy to our, I guess, community. So basically we play a lot of
dance music so we'll start the night with like a lot of soul and
funk and then it'll progress into a more uptempo dance music
and then we'll incorporate a lot of disaporic music. So like Afro

136
 House and Dancehall and Soca and just like Latin Funk and a
bunch of different stuff to get people moving.

But we also incorporate live music. So each time we have a

different set of musicians that play with us so we have somebody
that plays the djembe drum. And then we have somebody that's
on the sax. The last time we had a saxophonist and a violinist as
well. And I've had somebody come with snares and play before.

So we started it at Lot 45. We're going to move it just because

we both agree that it'll be better received at a different venue
because of what they've already established at Lot 45. I know
you play there because you know Matt.

Rekha: I played there once. I mean I could see the direction of what's
going on.

JADALAREIGN: Exactly. So. We're moving it. But the three or four times we did it
there, it was great. Like it was. We did on Saturday night. It's
interesting because the parties that they were doing there were
going in the direction of the mainstream Top 40. Like hip-hop
focus, and Matt was booking a lot of the selection DJs and just
going that route with it which is very different from what we were
trying to do. So the nights that we were there, there was a lot of
that crowd there. But the vibe that we were creating was just so
strong that even the people that were coming there for the
typical Lot 45, they were having an amazing time.

Rekha: It's become a place where there's a baseline reputation for good
music so people know and they've done enough mixed
programming that people are kind of open a little bit. It can feel
very mainstream sometimes.

137
JADALAREIGN: We do it once a month. We're taking this month off since we're
moving the venue but...

Rekha: So let me see if there's anything else I mean this has been a
great conversation. I think I hit all the notes. Is there anything
else you want to add. I mean where do you see yourself going.

JADALAREIGN: So I really want to get out of New York more. I don't know if that
means domestically or if that means internationally. But I want to
play more music that I feel passionate about and I want to be
known more for my style as a DJ, moreso than just being a DJ
that can play whatever. I mean it's been a great experience and
I feel like I'm well versed in a lot of different styles and things like
that. But, I want to take a more artistic approach. I'm learning
how to produce. So that'll definitely help me leverage my career
but I want to get out more. I want to feel that feeling in Mexico
and I got booked in Tanzania in June as well. I'm just like, no I
need more of that.

Rekha: You played there already?

JADALAREIGN: Yeah I played there.

Rekha: A bunch of my classmates, one of my professors does research

in Tanzania, and they were there over the break. I was like oh
my god that sounds amazing.

JADALAREIGN: It is incredible.

Rekha: It's fantastic. I mean it's kind of like sometimes DJing is like
acting. It's not like you can't do it, you just have to be cast for the
role.

JADALAREIGN: Exactly. That's how that happens is. I still don't know.
138
Rekha: I will definitely check you out when I'm back in New York.

JADALAREIGN: Yeah please do. And hopefully I'll check you out as well.
Take care. Thank you. Take care.

139
Interview Transcript:

DJ Laylo

140
 (Edited) Interview with DJ Laylo

Rekha: So what was the neighborhood like where you grew up. Give me a little
bit about your background.

Laylo: So I grew up the first part of my childhood in Harlem. We came to the

States when I was 3, from the Dominican Republic. I was born in
Puerto Rico, both of my parents are Dominican, but we basically went
from Puerto Rico to the DR, and from DR, here. Lived in Harlem around
like 139th Street near the City College area. And from age three to
about twelve, thirteen, and then we moved to up Washington Heights,
and then we moved to the Bronx, around 9 6 th, 9 7 th. My whole family is
now still in the Bronx since then. And I would say all of my
neighborhood were predominantly African American and Caribbean
Latino neighborhoods. So actually, a lot of Cubans when I first came.
They're not around anymore. They left. But there was a lot of Cubans.
And then, you know, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans.

So that was really kind of my universe growing up. And then some
other Caribbean, like English speaking Caribbean folks, but not a ton.
So yeah. Like low income, I grew up in New York City in the 80's and I
live in an apartment where, kept getting broken into because everybody
was smoking crack and what, you know! (laughs)

So definitely grew up seeing a lot of violence, and hearing about a lot of

violence you know experiencing shoot-outs and things a really early
age, but also experiencing like a super vibrant community, where like
you know regardless of how people were making their living, people
were looking out for each other, and there really was a sense of
community. Especially like my early childhood in Harlem, like
everybody knew each other, people looked out for each other's kids. So
very, very vibrant you know. I felt like I could say I had a happy
childhood you know. And then musically like you know hip-hop was
everywhere and all around and all like all consuming.
141
Rekha: And when you heard hip-hop, did you hear that at school and at home?
Was the music at home different from what you heard at school?

Laylo: Yeah. Definitely at home I was hearing salsa and classic 70's salsa
because my mother lived in Puerto Rico during her 20's. And so she's
like a hardcore salsa person. Mostly salsa and merengue at home, and
then as soon as I stepped outside of my house it was hip-hop out on
the street and at school.

Rekha: And when's the first time, if you can remember, that you saw a DJ. Do
you have a memory of that?

Laylo: Oh, that's a great question. Yeah. First time I saw a DJ. I mean I
definitely remember seeing Spinderella and noticing her.

Rekha: Where did you see her?

Laylo: On TV somewhere. Video Music Box or something.

Rekha: Video Music Box, after school!

Laylo: Latchkey kid, after school! Yeah maybe that's probably like the first DJ I
could say probably like really noticed. But I when I was in junior high
school, I did really used to listening to DJs and buying mixed tapes.
There'd be this place called Harlem Music Hut on 1 2 5 th, likeright before
you got to Broadway. Just a little store and they used to sell some vinyl,
CDs, tapes, but they sold like mixtapes. They used to have a little
binder with the list of the songs. Yeah. So I got into that in junior high
school and that's when I like really, I felt like for me the way to listen to
music at time like that transformed, at that point, because it became
about creating like an experience and telling a story for me. And then
what prompted that was hanging out with other friends like other
girlfriends that were really into music and we wouldn't make mixed
142
 tapes for each other like you know sit there and I record the song off
the radio and stop and record and play you know do the whole thing to
give each other tapes you know and like I felt like oftentimes when we
were giving each other tapes we were like telling each other things, it
was like a story you were telling or like. Like an experience you wanted
to provide for your friend by the song selection and the order of the
songs and, if I knew that that she was going through something at
home, like it was one thing if I knew that she had just broken up with
somebody that she really thought she loved. That was another thing
you know. And so it became like more about like understanding that
you could really have like intention behind you know how somebody
hears music, again yeah I think maybe like just telling a story through
that is like the best way I can describe it.

Rekha: Do you remember the first time you saw a live D.J. like in your
presence not on TV alive.

Laylo: A live DJ...I definitely remember there being like block parties and
seeing DJs.

Yes, actually I do remember. There was a block party on my aunt's

block on 136, and I actually now can picture the day, that you know that
you're asking about. And that was probably like somewhere between
like 9 and 11, or something. And yeah it was a block party. Yeah. And
this was like you know like maybe right before this era that I'm talking
about. Yeah. Right before this era when I started to really think about
curating music.

Rekha: So you know you saw Cinderella, you went to block parties or maybe
multiple. When did you actually start DJing?

Laylo: I started DJing right after college or like my last year in college. I was
part of a collective of women of color organizers in Brooklyn called
Sister to Sister. And we used to throw a lot of house parties as
143
 fundraisers. And at that time, this is like late 90's early 2000's, at that
time like basically all the DJ's were guys, or at least that we knew of,
you know. And so I remember us getting together and having a
conversation about this kind of being whack, and we had a situation
where there was one particular DJ that we invited, he was like a mutual
friend of a bunch of people. And he showed up and he was shitty. He
was like hitting on people, he made a couple of people feel
uncomfortable.

And so we had the situation, where we were like, oh we have to deal

with this one dude, but that situation made us realize like oh actually all
the DJs that we ever call upon are dudes. And that's whack. And so we
were like we should do the music ourselves. And then Paola was like,
well I did a little bit of-Paola was a member of this collective-she was
like, well I did a little bit of DJing in college, and I have some records at
home. And I was like, oh maybe we should like get a pair of turntables
and like you know whatever. And so actually, Paola, Ujju, and myself
went in on a pair of turntables, and the plan was that the turntables
would travel, like they would spend a couple weeks at my house, a
couple weeks at Paola's, a couple weeks at Ujju's, but like once they
came to my house, we never left because I think like I was the only one
that was really like serious about it. And I would say that that's when I
really started for me.

Rekha: When was that?

Laylo: That was like 2000 or 2001, around there, and then the other major
thing that happened for me was that I lived in Brazil, I know I spent
some time in Brazil from 1999 to 2000, and I met my ex-husband while
I was there and then he came to live in New York in 2002 or 2003, and
he had been in a hip-hop group in San Paolo for like years and years
and years, and one of the things was really dope about hip-hop in
Brazil is that they had really maintained the kind of idea that like a
group is a MC and a DJ. So all the groups-no matter how poor or
144
 wherever they were coming-they had to DJ. And people would share
turntables or you know, shared, the one DJ in that neighborhood who
could afford to have equipment or whatever. And so when he moved
here and left his hip-hop group, I mean he had kind of left the hip-hop
group before he came to New York, but when he moved here, he was
like, I want to keep making music and I want to keep him performing.
And you're already interested in DJing like you want to perform
together. And so my first time performing as a DJ like outside of my
house was... I did a show with him at the Bowery Poetry Club. It was
like an international hip-hop showcase, and I want to say that was
2003? But actually before that I had done some other Sister to Sister
parties.

Rekha: So your first gig was at the Bowery Poetry collective. How did you learn
how to DJ?

Laylo: Messing around a lot. So with these turntables that we have-and

actually would say I think of it as the first real big gig that I had. You
know the Bowery Poetry Club is not that big, big. But It's a place, right.
It's like a proper place with history.

Before that I had done some of the house parties with Sister to Sister.
So I had these DJed outside of my house before. And it was a lot of
likes start and stops, mess around. I think I might have bought some
DVDs too. I'm like definitely had like a Q*Bert DVD and a Z-Trip DVD at
one point. And then also my ex-husband knew little bit of how to DJ too.
But when he came we would practice together. That's like how I got the
basics, like a combination of DVD and playing at the house parties and
kind of figuring out what people like responds to. And even though I
wasn't really blending at that point.

Rekha: But where did you get your music from?

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Laylo: So I started on vinyl. So I would buy records. So I used to spend a lot of
time at Rock and Soul. Yes I would. I would go to, there's a spot in the
Bronx called that's on Casa Amadeo that has Latin music. And then I
started, any trip that I took I would make it a point to a local record
store. Especially in the Caribbean, when I went to Cuba I racked up on
a bunch of vinyl that someone was selling on the street and DR too, like
random stuff you know like African highlife, that somebody was selling
for like you know three Dominican pesos on a little side street, you
know it just became part of like what I did any time that I traveled.

Rekha: Yeah I remember in Brazil everywhere there was the We Are The
World record everywhere.

Laylo: Yes, yeah. vinyl was what, buying vinyl, you know, was where I got my
music to start off with. I didn't switch to Serato. I never really did CDs,
like CDJs. I went from vinyl to Serato practically. Although I have CDs,
which is interesting, because I have mad CDs. But I never really had a
period when I was like using CDs to DJ.

Rekha: Do you have any formal musical training?

Laylo: No not good.

Rekha: So outside of these like random trips and Cuba it seems you're pretty
much self-taught.

Laylo: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Sure.

Rekha: And the Bowery Poetry Club did you get paid for that gig?

Laylo: I don't think so.

Rekha: Do you remember the first time you got paid?

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Laylo: Probably the first time I got paid for a gig was like, because what
happened for me then, before I started getting gigs in nightclubs, I
started getting hired to do all the parties for non-profits. So that's
probably like one of those, first time somebody paid me and it might
have been like cab fare. Because I have records. You know, I was like
literally carrying all these record around.]

Rekha: You know you don't have to tell me. I know! 5 crates a night the
average!

So the Bowery Poetry Club. How many people were there, do you
remember?

Laylo: It was full. You know, that place is small.

Rekha: They re-did it. It's a cabaret place now.

Laylo: It was maybe like 50, 60 people. Yeah, it felt real. It definitely felt real. I
remember like my nerves are very real.

Rekha: So then and so then where did when did you switch to Serato?

Laylo: I switched to Serato maybe like around 2008 or 2009. Because I

remember I had our very I had already started my first party which was
called Liberation Lounge that I did uptown in East Harlem, in El Barrio,
and the first couple years of that party I remember I used to actually
being on the tables and everything because it was like a little hole in
the wall. It wasn't an actual club. And maybe like two years into that
party was when I switched to Serato. So that had to be like 2008 or so I
want to say.

Rekha: When did you decide to start this party? So give me a trajectory, like
you did the he Bowery Poetry Club for your ex-husband, you did these
parties with your girls, and a lot of non-profits. How did you get to a
147
 place where you like started your own night. What was your schedule
like in terms of gigs?

Laylo: That's a great question because I know like the party idea was again
and conversely...I feel like everything I've started, even now with the
party called Rosie Perez, every party or everything, even like
residencies or long standing things that I've done, have come from a
place of wanting to create something that didn't exist. And so like I
know doing the different events with the non-profit stuff, I think one of
things that really resonated and why people would call on me was that I
would play hip-hop and dancehall, but I would also play Latin music
and I would also play house. You know there was kind of like a range of
music that was all Black music, but that usually didn't get all played in
the same space. And I think you know that's highly still true in terms of
like what people know me for. That's still probably at the core of it. And
so you know the party was like, well one there wasn't much uptown, at
all. Everything you had to come you know downtown like Brooklyn
wasn't even still the kind of nightlife destination that it is today. So
everything downtown, and we wanted to do something uptown. We
were feeling a little fucking tired of dealing with these train and shit you
know. And it was me and one of my closest friends who lived in El
Barrio or she lived like on 103rd Street. I lived in the Bronx already but
she was like, yo we should do something in Barrio because it's like
accessible. It just felt like this this could be an uptown gathering, you
know, like a watering hole, if you will. And we already had like, you
know we were already part of a community of activists and artists, you
know. And so we also wanted something that had that kind of feel to it.
You know like a space that was reflective of our political values too, you
know.

So I was basically like a party for our friends and a party for uptown.
Those were the two things that we were trying to create. And you know
it's called Liberation, it's also about freedom and freeing ourselves and

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 our community through music. That whole kind of ethos was how that
party came about.

And then from there our friends, like our peer group, everybody's doing
amazing things, right. So like you know like Martine from Antibalas
from would come. And then he would call me to open for them or
something. Bobbito used to come to that party because he lived in
Harlem. And then being Bobbito, went on to be Bobbito stage, went on
to do these some of the first like Fania tribute parties.

So that kind of became you know a springboard for, first collaboration

with other artists and DJs and musicians who would come and have a
good time and then who would call me. And then you know the
trajectory from there was like, I remember one night, I forget who
exactly was it pulled me into the show but there was like a live music
show at this bar in Brooklyn that doesn't exist anymore in Williamsburg.
I think it was like the Rose Lounge or the Rose Club. And so I went to
do that gig. And after the gig was over, I just kind of stayed on the
decks like fucking around. And it turns into like an impromptu sort of
party. It didn't go on for very long, but it was like enough for the owner
to then ask me to come back. And then I came back and did a night.
And then I ended up being there every Friday night for like three, four
years. And it led to a residency.

Rekha: It was like side room next to a restaurant, right? Grand Street or
something?

Laylo: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly it was really dark and sexy in there. And so I was
there. And from being there like I did some other thing at some other
Williamsburg place that I can't even remember. And then everybody
said-oh yes I've done Bembe. I did Bembe

Rekha: That's like, you gotta pay your bills.

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Laylo: Yes, yeah, yeah. No, for sure. I did Bembe for maybe like a year and a
half or so. I did a Thursday night thing at Bembe. And then still getting
calls because I feel like everywhere you play out, something comes
from it. And then again a lot of the kind of growth and opportunities has
really come from other DJs and other artists pulling me into to
collaborate on something, and then that becoming something else or
leading to something else. So I would also say that I've experienced a
lot of really beautiful wonderful community through to the DJ world.
Because I feel my entry into the DJ space has been very much through
the, like I guess I'm part of the tribe that is about music and community,
and music and activism. I know there's a lot of different tribes and
everybody has a different experience but that's the tribe that I've been
a part of. So a lot of really beautiful and dope collaborations with
people.

And then I would say the bigger visibility thing that I do in terms of
trajectory stuff, along that route was the tribute parties, with Bobbito
and La Fania, it was called Siempre: Tribute to Fania. And this was
before there was a million and one Fania tribute parties.

Rekha: Right, you were like one of the first people.

Laylo: We were one of the first people to have that kind of idea. We did it at
like a Sophie's one year, and then we did it at Santos, and then we did
it at Central Park Summer stage. And then we did it at Central Park
Summer Stage, and again, all through that, the more stuff that I did, the
more that I would also get called to do, like museum gigs. I've done the
Brooklyn Museum three times over the year, or stuff like that.

Rekha: And what would you say in terms of your artistry. Is DJing the only
primary medium. Do you do other things creatively?

Laylo: So I do do other things creatively. I work on documentary films and

DJing for me is like the perfect complement to documentaries because
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 you know, and this is something I've only realized recently about DJing.
Like I'm a Capricorn and I'm a perfectionist, and DJing for me is
probably one of the only times or things that I can do where I'm like fully
fully fully just in the moment, like I completely present. And if you're
DJing live, like whatever, if you fucked up a mix, you fucked up a mix,
you got to keep moving and you can't just like give up. You know you
have like four more hours left to spin. You got to keep moving, and
there is this ability to just be fully present and not really be thinking
about perfecting it, but it's really about how it feels to me, how it feels to
the crowd, what I feel that the crowd is feeling. It just feels like one of
the moments and spaces that I'm like most present and I feel most
connected into something that's not from my head, which I desperately
need because of my perfectionism, and my control issues. It does so
much for me. Like one good gig is like a shot of good energy that can
sustain me for weeks at a time. It's like my fix! I felt like an addict. But it
is something that I need you know.

While filmmaking, I completely love, and I also see it being really

deeply aligned with my sense of purpose in the world, and I love, love,
love it. But that's all about perfecting. You go out and shoot and then
you're in the edit from months, like pouring over every second, every
moment, every minute. DJing is the opposite of that for me.

Rekha: It's hard always hard to do this, but I like to ask the question. Worst gig
best gig?

Laylo: Worst gig, best gig.

Rekha: And if it doesn't come to mind that's okay.

Laylo: Best gig I would say, maybe, I mean I have a few. But one gig that
really marked me was I DJed in Sao Paolo, Brazil in 2007, and I was
still on vinyl at the time, so I bought records. It was a party that is still
around actually and it's done by this crew of the dopest DJs in Sao
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Paolo. I was super nervous. I knew them really well, and they were like
friends and family, but they didn't know me as a deejay so I was super
nervous. You know, whatever. And went in and I killed it. It was such an
affirmation of my ability to read a crowd, because I had spent some
time, but I'm not like from there. And this was a very discerning crowd,
because they used the come to this party on a monthly basis. And this
crew of DJs is super dope. Yeah that for me was just like a real
affirmation of like trust your instincts. You have good instincts around
music and how to keep a dance floor present and moving and
connected.

So I know a lot of people are on different minds about this. Depending

on your priorities as a DJ. I have some of my closest friends these days
that I love and really respect, that their priority is to like introduce rare
music to a crowd, or to break new records, or there's these different
things that they see as their kind of utmost goal.

For me, I'm from the school of like my utmost goal is to rock the crowd.
I do feel like I care about rocking the crowd on my terms, so like I'm not
going to play music that I don't stand behind. You know, I have to like it.
And that can be anything from super obscure to super contemporary,
and sometimes even pop. But I have to stand behind I,t and I get a real
kind of kick out of figuring out how to take the crowd along with me
without losing them, like how to go on a journey and connect dots
between things that might otherwise not seem connected at all.

I'm particularly into that idea of connecting dots in terms of the African
diaspora and like people kind of sometimes hitting people with
unexpected things, but it making so much sense that they go with it,
you know it's like the dance floor never stops. But that for me is like you
have to be reading them. You have to be paying attention, it has to be a
conversation. You can't just be all about me. It's almost like being a
good lover, you can't just be in it to get your rocks off, you have to be
attentive and connected and receptive and responsive. And that for me
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 is like what my ultimate kind of goal is as a DJ. So for me, reading a
crowd is of the utmost importance because that's my goal of DJ'ing, is
rocking the crowd.

Rekha: And would you play things that, I mean you stand behind it, but you
know the situation is that we get requests for like, I don't know, "could
you play the Macarena."

Laylo: Nah. I'll figure out a Beyonce song to quench their thirst or something
for, you know, I'll figure my way out around it. I tend to not take
requests unless I'm like doing a wedding or something, but that's not
even...

Rekha: I'm talking about the wedding where you have to play the Macarena.

Laylo: Oh yeah. Oh yes. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you're
doing a wedding at that point you can't even consider that a request.
This is this person's, one of the most important days of their lives. They
hired you. You don't have a whole lot of leeway. Although I will say like
I feel like most of the people that have hired me to DJ weddings, hire
me because they like what I play. There's like, what's the Jewish song
that they do when they do the chair thing and everything, I forget the
name of it. I'd have to play that because one of the partners is Jewish
and there has to be one nod to the Jewish side of the family. I would
never play that outside of that context. But in that context its totally fine
doing it, it makes a ton of sense.

Rekha: Weddings are a slippery slope. I feel the same way. But you know
sometimes people who hire you are not the people, it's them who want
something, and then it's their relatives.

Laylo: Oh yeah. Yeah. For sure. Power struggle.

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Rekha: I remember I remember when I started, most of my gigs were
weddings. I would upfront ask them, "Do you want or do you not want
the Macarena," that was like my question. If you do not want the
Macarena, who can I blame? Can you designate a family member that
says you don't want it. There is this whole colonial mentality of service.

Laylo: Yeah that's true. That's very true. My worst gig, I'll tell you my worst gig.
I had to DJ a party at junior high school.

Rekha: Oh wow.

Laylo: In my neighborhood in the Bronx. In my mother's neighborhood that I

lived in. And that was fucking horrible, because the kids were like an
incessant about what they wanted. And then the teachers were
incessant about what they didn't want and imagine that the two things
were completely at odds. So, it was like the most tense three hours of
my life ever, because it was incessant. And I was like I am never doing
this shit again.

Rekha: Yeah. I mean one bad gig is when people, they just don't even see you.
They just want you know like, I've been there. So now what format you
used to deejay?

Laylo: Mostly Serato. Yeah mostly Serato.

Rekha: Controller or turntables or vinyl?

Laylo: I do both. I do both.

Rekha: So you had a lot of vinyl, did you have to eventually digitize that music?

Laylo: I did digitize some of it. Not all of it. But then I did a lot of kind of like
pools. Like music pools with other DJs. With Reborn, I would give

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 Reborn music, she would give me music. A lot of that to kind of really
built up the library, and then you know also be buying stuff.

Rekha: And how do you prepare for a performance now?

Laylo: So when I have something coming up, I typically, about a week before,
I start checking in with myself around like where are you at right now.
What kind of vibe, you know. What have you been listening to. And
then I just start thinking about music like a week before. Not like making
lists or anything but just more of like a check-in. Especially because
now the only real like regular gig I have is my own party. I'm not doing a
ton of other things, because I can't, I don't have time. And so that to me
is almost like a family party because the people that are coming to that
I know that they're gonna, they kind of know what to expect or they're
willing let us take them wherever the hell we want to take them. So,
then it becomes about well what do I want to show my family this
Saturday.

That's a check-in that I started to do with myself. For example I did that
today because it's going to be the three year anniversary party coming
up. I was listening to... what I was listening to? I was listening to "It's A
Vibe", that trap song, this morning and I was like, oh you know if could
roll in "Crew" by Goldlink right at this point... I'm driving and I'm thinking
about this. I'm like taking my kids to school and this is what I'm thinking
about. And then I was like, well, you know, I kind of want to mess
around and see if I can find some dope funk, baile funk instrumentals to
then, like a quick remix live with a couple R& B songs, and then I go
from there to some Afrobeat and then go to some merengue, that's kind
of what I'm thinking I want to do.

Rekha: So that sort of like a roadmap, do you stick to it?

Laylo: No, it depends. Sometimes what happens is because it's three of us,
and we DJ together, everybody has their own roadmap and then
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 somehow the roadmaps need to meet, when it's time to transition. So
sometimes what ends up happening is that I'll pick up wherever I think
the crowd needs to either stay or go from the previous DJ. And now
beyond whatever that is, because again for me, I need to rock the
crowd more than I need to stick to my plan or anything. But oftentimes
what will happen is that at some point in the night I will at least get to
touch that road map. I'll get there at some point, even if it's not the full
thing I was thinking about, but I'll get to kind of touch it. That's usually
how it works because I go on third. So Christian opens, then Sucio
goes on and then I come on.

Rekha: Is that usually at the peak of the night?

Laylo: Yes usually around the peak like you know 12:30, 1, 1:20, depending
on what time we actually get going. What happens from there is that
usually after my set, then Sucio and I will do 2 for 2, mess around, and
then Christian will come back at the end and close out.

Rekha: With the right DJ I love going song to song or back to back.

Laylo: Oh, I love. That's like one of my favorite things about the party. Sucio
and I were talking about maybe doing just a one-off, like that's what we
do all night. Because we have a good time doing it. Yeah. That's dope
to me. That's super fun.

Rekha: Do you interact with the crowd at all? Do you talk on the microphone?

Laylo: I do that very, very, very little. So with a party called Rosie Perez, Sucio
is really good at it and he's like hilarious, really funny dude. So he
usually plays that role. If I'm DJing by myself and it's my regular party, I
force myself to be on the mic at some point. But I do look out and
dance along, or do my hands along with the crowd. I feel like I do
interact, but I'm not always, it's hard for me to get on the mic. I don't like
it.
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Rekha: When you're actually spinning, just from a mechanical perspective, are
you cutting and scratching. Can you describe the physical process?

Laylo: Yeah. So I'm the kind of DJ that if left to my own devices, I would blend
every single thing, all night. That's my default, is my preference. That's
how I like to hear music. But I have over recent years gotten a little
more into like cutting, very little scratching.

Rekha: So when you say cutting, you mean like cutting on a phrase or
something? But not beat juggling?

Laylo: Not beat juggling, just cutting.

Rekha: Do you think you think those things are important?

Laylo: I think they're terrific and wonderful, but they're not necessary in every
context.

Laylo: Yeah. I don't know. I think again, I'm not trying to dismiss it because I
know that this form, this craft is so expansive, which is what I love
about it, that there's a corner for everybody. I mean like there's a lane
for everybody.

Like I have gone into situations where I've gone to DJ events with DJ's
that are really dope with scratching and just really technically super
human, kind of more on battle DJ, that school of thought, and that's a
school. And I think the party rockers are another school. I've been in
situations where I was nervous because, oh my god, there's this DJ
that can do all of these fancy things. I don't know how to do any of that.
But then I go on and I rock the crowd and because I have a good time,
nobody remembers that I didn't do the flares or whatever. Because they
had a really good time. And from that other DJ, they might remember
that sick ass routine that they did because they had a good time, but
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 you can make an impression on the crowd and give the crowd
whatever it is that you can uniquely give them. And so I think that's
great and important, but I don't think there's any deficiency if you don't
do that. Particularly if you have these other things that are really
important too, which is like the ability to read the crowd and that ability
to just really be able to be connected and to really prioritize their needs.
I feel like those are all strengths just as cutting and scratching and you
know fancy routines.

Rekha: Have you ever felt like unsafe while you DJed?

Laylo: Yeah definitely. I've had situations where like the venue owner was
disrespectful and very inappropriate with me. I was worried, I was trying
to finish and get out safely and I wasn't sure if I would be able to do
that. That's the whole gig, that was on the back of my mind. I've
definitely had that situation. I've also had situations where fights have
broken out. Not many of those, but that's happened.

Rekha: Not feeling safe with the venue owner, does that affect your
performance?

Laylo: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Rekha: And whether or not you were going to get paid or not.

Laylo: Yeah. Yeah.

Rekha: Definitely. Because if you, were a guy, he wouldn't be doing that.

Laylo: Of course. I've also had situations where the MC who was announcing
me, said some inappropriate shit as they're announcing me. And I'm
coming onto a stage where I already feel disrespected.

Rekha: If you don't mind elaborating, what do you mean?

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Laylo: Like there was a situation at SOBs, long time ago, where the emcee is
like, "Oh and next up is DJ Laylo," and then he looks and he's like, "Oh
shit. And she's fine as fuck too." Then he like goes into like a two
minute thing about what he wants to do to me.

Rekha: Oh gross.

Laylo: To the crowd at a packed SOB's, and I have to get on the stage and
pretend like that didn't just happen and I'm totally focused and centered
and I'm totally fine to do my job now.

Rekha: I don't even want the cab driver to ask me a question. I know what you
mean.

Laylo: You know it's like it totally throws you off, for sure. It's disconcerting that
it throws you all the way off. I clearly have a lot of stories! I've had
situations where I'm DJing, and there's a ton of guys behind me and
they're saying shit to me and saying shit to each other. And I have to
keep my game face on. And they're saying shit to each other about,
and they're right behind me.

Rekha: As if you can't hear them.

Laylo: As if I can't hear them and as I'm DJing, you know.

Rekha: Do you feel like there is ever aggression or any kind of mansplaining
behavior around what you're doing.

Laylo: A lot. A lot. People have taken things out of my hand, taken like
needles out of my hands, or my own headphones out of my hand, like I
don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

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Rekha: Taking them out of your hand, and put them on so they could take
over?

Laylo: Yeah.

Rekha: Oh my God. But no, I hadn't had exactly that, but pretty close. Has is it
changed over time?

Laylo: It has, but also I have to say I'm not in a ton of environments, Like I'm
not DJing as much as I used to. I'm also not DJing for my survival,
which is different. Like at one point DJing was my primary source of
income, and so I did a number of different things and I was out a lot
more, and dealing with all kinds of... I was like a regular, like I had one
thing that was my night, but then I had a bunch of gigs that were just
gigs, like I was the house DJ for the Friday or Saturday or Thursday,
whatever. I would say it has changed, but also it's changed in a lot of
different ways, my context is totally different now. So I guess maybe I'm
not tthe best person to give a broad assessment of how much has
change or not.

Rekha: The goal here is to speak from your experience.

Laylo: I do wonder, for the women... I mean there's a lot more women and
women of color DJs now, than when I started. When I started, in terms
of our universe, it was like Ubiquita folks and you. And there was Kuttin
Kandi. You could count them on one hand.

Rekha: And now you can't count, there's too many.

Laylo: Now you can't count. No, you can't count. And a lot of people, this is
how they're living. This is how they're making their bread. They're out
there four or five nights a week DJing. I do wonder for them, if they
feel... But I almost feel like the fact that there are so many of them
happens to be indicative of a change. That in and of itself is a change.
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Rekha: I mean there's a change, but there's also like you know... I'm sure there
is a change but sexism is sexism. Is it safe for women ever. I think for
me, just being in this game for a long time, the surprise of you being
there is not the same. Because it would just be downright surprise.

Laylo: Oh yeah definitely. Like, "Oh, you're the DJ?"

Rekha: I did a gig three years ago in Philly. It was kind of a corporate gig, and I
couldn't believe that there were still people that were like, "Oh my god,
I've never seen a girl beat down records," and I was like, "Are you
fucking serious?" It was just a context. It was just like a weird gig.
There's a lot of young kids out there. It's definitely changing.

So I kind of think that's it for me, in terms of, if I have any follow up
questions, I could shoot an email or something. And do you produce
music?

Laylo: I don't.

Rekha: And do you record you sets?

Laylo: I do that very rarely. Yeah.

Rekha: And now your main gig is Rosie Perez, right.

Laylo: Yeah.

Laylo: And you guys do that like around once a month?

Rekha: That's as much as anything needs to be, let me tell you!

Well I really appreciate your time. Thank you. This was really great.

Laylo: Thank you, my pleasure. I can't wait to see what you come up with.
161
Interview Transcript:

DJ Reborn

162
 (Edited) Interview with DJ Reborn

Rekha: Tell me about who you are. What was the neighborhood like where you
grew up? And what was it?

Reborn: I grew up in Chicago but the neighborhood changed all the time. We
moved pretty much every year of my life so I lived all over Chicago's
South Side, North Side. Then we moved to the suburbs, to Evanston.
So there isn't one neighborhood. There are a bunch of them.

Rekha: Did they have different characters or qualities?

Reborn: Yeah I mean I want to say pretty predominantly black neighborhoods.

Until junior high school, and then there was more of a mixed
community, in terms of people's backgrounds and diversity.

Rekha: And then what was it like, was there a feeling of living in Chicago that
transcended the different neighborhoods you were in.

Reborn: Yes, the feeling of living in Chicago is so unique. I guess it's like
growing up anywhere. It has its own character. And so for me a lot of
what Chicago felt like growing up was a lot about music, a lot about
architecture, a lot about food. Those are my most formative memories,
like the layout of the city, and going places with my family, and just
having my world view and eye shaped by being in this very
Metropolitan Place. That was super diverse but also pretty segregated
as well.

Rekha: And what kind of music did you listen to at home? And do you have
siblings?

Reborn: I do have siblings. I have three siblings, and music was a huge part of
our household. My oldest-

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Rekha: Could you say that again. I do have siblings.

Reborn: Oh I do have siblings. I have three and I'm the youngest in my family.
So my oldest brother played piano and was super into Elton John and
just all kinds of music. But I just remember he drove us all crazy
learning Bennie and the Jets on the piano for like too long. I was like,
"Oh my god, I don't need to hear this song again!"

So there was a lot of mixed genres playing in my house. So a lot of

funk and soul, a lot of Parliament Funkadelic, a lot of Chaka Khan, a lot
of Stevie Wonder, jazz, blues. My parents were super into music. They
loved going to concerts, but it was a lot of like R&B, funk and soul, and
a little bit of like rock.

Rekha: Were they from Chicago?

Reborn: They were both from small towns in Illinois. Like you know a couple
hours away from Chicago proper. But they met there.

Rekha: And then you live in New York now. What's your journey to get here?

Reborn: Oh god. My journey to get to New York was leaving Chicago at a really
young age, at 18, with no real plan of what I was going to do. But I
knew I really wanted to leave Chicago at that point. I felt like my life
was going to be a very predictable and unhappy endeavor if I stayed
there. Only because you know when you grow up somewhere you just
really want to get the hell out. I just was ready to go. And I wanted to
see what else was in the world.

So I decided to move to California. It was sort of a last minute, like I'm

kind of moved on a whim. And went with 60 bucks, a suitcase, no plan,
no friends. It was after high school. So, yeah it was like the fall after I
graduated from high school, and I say I was driving in a car cross
country with one of my high school friends to California, and I moved to
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 the Bay Area. I'd never been there before, I didn't know anything about
it. I had no ties there. I mean I had some family there, but not that I was
super close to. And I just started to make a way from myself which is
how I got interested in DJing, was being in the Bay going out to parties
and meeting these amazing DJs who happened to be from New York.
We were going to UC Berkeley, and I worked in the area, and I started
meeting these DJs who just had these amazing sets and they spun all
different genres of music, which is what I like and so it really inspired
me to want to get to figure out how to DJ.

Rekha: So speaking of that, what's the first time if you can remember seeing a
DJ actually perform? Do you remember? First time or times?

Reborn: I think the first time I remember seeing DJs perform was probably just
in videos, music videos. Maybe that was my first like laying my eyes on
that, and then also just growing up in Chicago house music was such a
huge part of the culture. So I used to listen to DJs mixing live on the
radio. You know like the mix it six, the drive at five, whatever all those
things are that they still do. I still listen to that stuff.

And then physically seeing DJs, movies, videos, TV, and then I want to
say live, there were a couple. One was obviously like going to shows,
so I want to say going to see Public Enemy or whatever what 17. But
also I was friends with and went to high school with this very famous DJ
now called Heather, DJ Heather from Chicago. So she was the first DJ
I saw, like we would go out and listen to her DJ. None of us were old
enough to be out in bars. But we would go and listen to Heather spin,
and this was like early in her early years of DJing, but she was like the
first DJ I knew when I was a teenager.

Rekha: So then how did you actually start, and do you remember the process
of like, first gig, or you know. How did you get there?

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Reborn: I first started DJing, living in the Bay Area. And like I said I met some
DJs that just really inspired me. And then one of my best friends, she
was dating a DJ. She decided to, one year by some use turntables,
because we were both had talked about DJing and wanting to like
collect records and blah blah blah. So she bought these turntables and
so we would practice at her house, we would buy records and just kind
of like mess around on the turntables. Try to figure out how to mix, and
all that stuff. [31.7s]

Rekha: No YouTube. Did anyone show you how to do stuff? Or did her
boyfriend or...?

Reborn: No not really. I mean we had DJ friends at that point who gave us some
pointers and I want to say maybe once or twice another DJ friend tried
to give me some quote unquote lessons, but you know everybody can't
teach the thing that they know, everyone is good at that. And some of it
too was just like a sexist endeavor, in terms of like you're asking
someone for help, but they think it's an opportunity to hit on you, and
you're like, "Oh yeah. You know what. Never mind. Going to teach
myself." I had people try to show me a couple of things. But as you
know, DJing is a completely tactile, hands-on, you gotta do it yourself.

Rekha: You had to figure it out with your own hands and your own brain unless
you have two sets right next to you or something right. Which, rarely.
Yeah, I remember in the early days when I used to do a lot of
workshops. The guys would just be brazen and like touch everything
and women would just be so hesitant and scared and just their reaction
to technology was so different.

Reborn: Yeah but that's socialization. You know, boys are encouraged to tinker
with things, to take things apart, and women are not.

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Rekha: So how did you, you know, you and your friends started learning, you
had a set of tables, you were collecting vinyl. How did you get your first
gig or what was your first gig? Or your first time you played.

Reborn: So the first gig..Oh yeah. I totally know the date and everything. I know
where I was. It was April 15, 1992.

Rekha: June 26,1992. Oh sort of. I was kind of the DJ manager but that's some
date, that is a famous date. Yeah see where we've been riding along
each other's sides for a minute now. Yeah.

So, April 15 th, often Tax Day. 1992 in the Bay.

Reborn: I felt taxed, too, by the experience! So Rachel, that was my friend who
had gotten the turntables, and we were practicing at her house. Her
boyfriend was also doing music production as well as DJing, but he
was phasing out of being a DJ. He got offered a gig at this bar, which at
the time was called The Eleventh Hour in San Francisco. And he threw
us into the gig. He literally told the promoter, "Oh I can't do it but my
girlfriend and her friend they can do it." So he basically gave us a gig
without asking us first. He just was like, "I got you guys a gig, here.

Rekha: He had faith in you, or you just needed somebody to take up? You
don't even know.

Reborn: Yeah, I think what it was, it was a blessing of him kind of pushing and
pushing us into the thing because we probably just would've stayed in
her room practicing till now. You know what I'm saying. I think it was an
encouraging healthy, loving push, like, "Here, if you guys don't get out
and do it now you're not gonna do it." So we made a flyer. Called the
party a name-

Rekha: Do you remember the name of the party?

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Reborn: It's so stupid! It was called Soul Pilgrimage. We didn't want to say
journey because that's just too obvious. So we had to do a pilgrimage
and be dramatic. Yeah. We made a flyer and we made up our random
DJ names and-

Reborn: What was your random DJ name?

Reborn: Oh that's in the vault. I'm not telling. My old DJ name is in the vault.
Some people know it, who have known me that long. But we chose DJ
names, we made a flyer, we invited our friends, and carried all that
vinyl, and practiced our sets, and had a lot of support. It was a really
nice night in terms of just, you know, people come out and support you
when you-

Rekha: When you start until your friends age out of showing up.

Reborn: Right, but they were there! And the mixing was terrible but the
selections were good. And that was the beginning.

Rekha: And then what was the next gig. Was it the same place?

Reborn: No I don't think we got booked that place again.

Rekha: Did you get paid?

Reborn: Maybe like seventy five dollars.

Rekha: I got fifty bucks, combined with me and my cousins.

Reborn: Exactly. It was more for fun and nerves than anything else. I don't
remember the gig directly after that. But gigs just sort of started to
trickle in, and I started to want to DJ a bit more out. Even though I
wasn't as confident in my skills, at that point. I still wanted to just

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 contribute something to the conversation. The sonic landscape of the
Bay Area.

And also, being a woman and doing it, just over time. I don't know that I
had a consciousness about how important that was until I really saw
the lack of women in the craft. I mean we've always been there, so I
really hate when a new DJ comes along and they act like there wasn't
someone there before them. There were not as many, but I can't stand
these you know millennial DJs who are like, "Five years ago when I
started, nobody was doing this". It's like, "Girl, get out of here."

Rekha: And also it was on the cover of the Village Voice, like please do your
research.

Reborn: But do your research because there is somebody from back in the 70's,
the 60's. Just because you didn't see the person doesn't mean that
they weren't there doing the work, and you're standing on their
shoulders still.

Rekha: Growing up did you have any formal musical training at all?

Reborn: No formal musical training for me growing up at all. I took guitar lessons
for a semester.

Rekha: So how long were you in the Bay?

Reborn: I lived in the Bay for nine years. So I started DJing in '92. I moved there
in '90, '89 or '90. So yes. So I DJed for seven of those years as kind of
a side hustle.

Rekha: What was your other hustle? If you don't mind saying.

Reborn: Oh no I don't mind. I was working in retail management. So I worked a

lot at clothing stores and managing the vintage and new clothing
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 stores. Stuff like that. But I didn't love it, like it was OK. It was
something to do while I was that age. But I didn't really consider DJing
as a viable career option. It never seemed legitimate enough to do full
time at that time.

Rekha: Just because there wasn't enough stuff.

Reborn: I just didn't understand the value of it. It took me a long time to
understand the value of putting my focus on it. As opposed to being like
this is something fun to do, that I make money at sometimes. When I
moved to New York after being in the Bay for a while, I sort of felt like I
had plateaued in the Bay for myself in terms, like at that point I was
doing OK. I was pretty well known in the area. And then I just felt like
I've hit a ceiling and I was just like there's no... It wouldn't be fair to say
that there was nothing else there for me. But it felt like there was
nothing there for me and I needed grow.

Rekha: And so then you moved to New York.

Reborn: I moved to New York.

Rekha: When was that?

Reborn: '99. The summer of '99.

Rekha: Probably when I met you.

Reborn: Yeah Summer. Yeah.

Rekha: And then what happened to your career after that.

Reborn: When I first came to New York, I thought I was going to have a lot of DJ
gigs. I started off having a few before I got here. Stuff was booked so I
felt confident, but I was too confident because within two or three
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 weeks of being here, there were no more gigs, after the first couple. But
for some reason I just thought work was gonna keep a sort of
cartwheeling into itself, and it just didn't happen. So then I panicked
and I got a job in retail in Soho.

Rekha: What you knew.

Reborn: Yeah it's what I knew. I knew someone that worked at the place and I
could be paid under the table. So I was like, I have to do something
right. So I went back to what I knew. But a few months into that or
several months into that I was completely miserable, and I had an
epiphany one day riding the subway that I wasn't willing to be in New
York and do what I already did somewhere else. That was not the point
of uprooting my life and coming here. So I just made an agreement with
myself that I was going to recalibrate my focus on DJing and go
towards it and work on it like a real job, like treat it like a 9 to 5.

Rekha: So what did that mean for you?

Reborn: That just meant that I had to do things that were outside of my comfort
zone. Some of that was networking, going out and talking to other DJs
and meeting people, showing my face doing gigs for cheap or free,
following up, emailing people if I met them. You know, just the
professional things that you do with whatever it is you're doing in the
world that keeps you present and viable and in front of people. So I
think I just I made a conscious decision to be more present with trying
to get DJ gigs and getting better at DJing. And then in 2001, when I
started doing theater stuff with Will Power, that was like a new
challenge for me. So it helped my DJing exponentially and my ability to
be in front of people.

Rekha: Can you explain a little bit about what that was.

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Reborn: Yes. So I started DJing in theater contexts, like in 2001 and still do it
now, off and on, and it was a one-man-show called Flow. With this
playwright and actor, Will Power from the Bay, who I'd known since my
days in the Bay. He used to be in a hip-hop group in the Bay. So we'd
known each other for years, and when he was writing this piece he
wanted a woman DJ as the person running the world of sound
throughout the piece. So he had me in mind and then we finally were
able to work out the dates and I just embarked on this journey of
essentially being like the live orchestra for theater pieces but with
turntables.

Rekha: That's awesome. And what would you consider your main artistic
practice, and do you engage in other disciplines as well?

Reborn: My main artistic class practice, as in, you mean DJing itself?

Rekha: Are you DJ producer, right...?

Reborn: Yeah, I mean the...

Rekha: It's a requisite question because sometimes people work in different

mediums.

Reborn: Yeah. I mean my practice is definitely DJing and then I do things DJ-
related, so whether that is working in theater like I said, like providing
soundtracks for live theater shows. That's not just straight ahead mixing
music but also incorporating sound effects, dialogue, you know,
recorded voices, whatever that, sound design, sound collaging. I
consider myself to be a sound collage artist. And then also all of my
years as a mentor and mentoring young people, particularly young girls
with creative writing and DJing.

Rekha: And then you used to work with writers and poets?

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Reborn:- Yeah, yeah I was a mentor for about 12 years with Urban Word.

Rekha: My friend, you know, Bushra Rehman, of course.

Reborn: Yeah, exactly yeah. So I would say I'm a sound collage artist, uh, DJ.
I've dabbled a bit in production, but not enough to call myself a
producer at all. But I'm interested in learning it still. I have been wanting
to paint for a long time but I haven't done it yet. I know it's gonna
happen. It's like right there at the tip of my brain. And then continuing to
like, you know my theatre piece that we did, like that was four years
ago.

Rekha: Was that four years ago?

Reborn: Yeah four years ago. My life has just taken so many twists and turns.
That's my promise to myself, when you're 19. That thing has to be
resurrected.

Rekha: Yeah. So in terms of other work in the DJ realm. Actually DJing for
people, do you actually put on events? Curate?

Reborn: No. Like maybe I've thrown one party or something. Even before I lived
in New York. But I find that that's a whole other set of skills that I do not
possess. Like that would not be a strong place for me to throw up my
own events. I might be down to curate something. Curate or help make
decisions about a vision of something or have a vision of something
and what I carry it through. Like I said, with the theater piece that's like
the closest thing I could do to throwing an event. But throwing parties, I
just feel like I would fail miserably. I know what I do well. It's like playing
your position on the team.

Rekha: So tell me about Ubiquita, and some of the other things you've done in
your career. Because I know you've spent a lot of time teaching,

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 actually teaching not just mentoring. You were affiliated with different
nights, as a resident DJ. Have you had residencies and things?

Reborn: Honestly the residencies haven't been the bulk of what I do. So you
Ubiquita was a women DJ-centered party that I did on the Lower East
Side with Kim Knox and Sean Maxwell and Selly and Moni and we had
other DJs rotate in and out. ShErOck. Remarkable. This woman Mia
for a while.

So it was a weekly party. So that was my main residency in New York.

And it grew to be pretty popular in terms of just like you know all the
dancers would come and the music was ecletic. Super fun party. We
had a good time there.

Rekha: There was two floors.

Reborn: Exactly. You gotta love that.

Rekha: Was it still, Save the Robots?

Reborn Yes exactly. Save the Robots which was in Guernica. When we were
there.

But that party sort of gave me a home base in New York. But at that
time I was also travelling too with Will for the theater piece and then I
got booked for being the DJ for Russell Simmons Def Poetry Tour.
Their final year of touring. So I did that for a year.

I appreciate the diversity of what I do. So I've done stuff with the
Howard Zinn Project and then Eve Ensler stuff. I love being able to be
the musical voice or the soundtrack for events and organizations that
do work that I believe in, that I care about, and that I think is important. I
like having something to say in those environments with what I play.

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Rekha: What about the teaching stuff, do you want to talk about that?

Reborn: Yeah. Yeah.

Rekha: Talk to me about it. And then we'll get a little bit more into some
technical stuff.

Reborn: So as far as the teaching stuff, I started mentoring in like 2000,

somewhere around there. And then that transitioned into teaching at a
DJ school here in New York, that no longer exists. And then I've taught
at another one as well. I've taught at a few DJ schools now over the
course of all these years in New York. And it's interesting because I
didn't realize as I said before that it's a whole different set of skills. So
teaching people how to DJ is very simple. It comes easily for me, but it
also took a long time to fine tune my teaching style and being able to
communicate information terminology and skill, and be supportive to
people, and make them work hard, but also show them a bunch of
shortcuts that I wish I would have known when I was teaching myself
how to DJ. So for me, always get so much out of teaching because I
like seeing people connect those dots and have a successful mix or
whatever it is that makes them feel less intimidated by the craft you
know because it is a craft. And I think people, because of the
technology of today, really take for granted how you still have to work at
the craft. People can literally sink things up now and not rely on their
own system of counting internally. People don't even know how to do
that anymore. They're just pressing a button and looking at a screen.

Rekha: So yeah I know one of your students, was one of my students. What
was her name? She's a Pakistani girl, rich Pakistani girl. She had liked
faded hair. She went for like, third world kid. I don't know. I was
teaching the NYU masterclass which you spoke, at and then we were
doing we were doing the practical at the place we will not mention. And
it was Shifty, I was co-teaching it with him because he was thrust upon
me with my choice. Yeah. And he's just you know whatever. We had
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 very different philosophies around what it meant to DJ, and what was
important and what wasn't. Because you know he came up as a
turntablist. Mohin I think, Mohit, you must have had so many students.
Anyway, so you've taught there and you were just talking, we were
talking about technique. So you started on vinyl.

Reborn: Started on vinyl.

Reborn: And do you remember the mixer that you and your friend had?

Reborn: I believe it was a Numark mixer. That first mixer, but I don't remember.

Rekha: I'm just I'm like, because remember my first mixer, and it was terrible.

Reborn: Also maybe I don't have such a strong memory of it because it was her
set up. It took me years to be able to afford my own gear.

Rekha: Yeah, it was pretty expensive. Yeah. That's how it is, you know. So you
started with vinyl. And when you came to New York you had a few gigs
and you worked your other jobs. At what point did it feel like this is for
real, or this is my career, or does it feel that way? I don't want to put
words in your mouth. Is there is there a moment or a time or a feeling
around that?

Reborn: Yeah.

Reborn: I do feel like the story that I said before about being on my way to work
and on the train and sort of seeing myself be miserable and deciding in
that moment to pursue DJing full time. That was the turning point for
me, because it was just my decision and everything that's come after
that has been because I've tried to stick to that decision. It's like you
keep choosing the thing, right.

Rekha: Right. Or the thing has chosen you.

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Reborn: And the thing has chosen me. And so when I knew that I didn't have to
do anything that wasn't related to music for money, is when I also knew
that it was like, "Ok, this is it." Which is why I started mentoring and
teaching and doing theater stuff and just trying to be diverse about my
approach to the work, so that things wouldn't dry up, like I always have
streams of income cause I do different stuff.

Rekha: What's the work?

Reborn: What do you mean?

Rekha: You said different approaches to the work. The work of DJing?

Reborn: Different approaches to the work of sharing my passion for music and
my limited knowledge of it. That's the work. The work is like, ok, I'm
here. I'm a vessel. I do this craft. I'm technically good at this craft. What
else can I do with it that's useful? Can I show other people how to do
what I know how to do. Yes. That's useful. Do I need to reinvent myself
and continue to discover music all the time. Yes. That's important,
that's part of the work. Am I going to keep doing weird gigs because
they keep me on my toes. Yeah. That's the work.

Rekha: So weird in terms of just strange or just like...?

Reborn: New challenges, like new challenges. So like this tour, for instance. Yes
is a big deal and I don't think I've played in front of this many people.

Rekha: What's the biggest number of people you've played for? Can we
mention that the tour

Reborn: I'm on tour with Lauryn Hill. And I have been for several months off and
on. But the biggest crowd I want to say is at a festival we did a couple
months ago in L.A. called Camp Flog Gnaw, started by Tyler the
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 Creator or something. It's like one of thesem like definitely millennial,
festivals. But we did a set there, and I want to say there had to be at
least fifty, sixty thousand people.

Rekha: Wow that's intense.

Reborn: But on average we play in front of anywhere, like, from five thousand to
fifty thousand people.

Rekha: So is it different to do the 50 thousand versus Bed and Vyne. Or a

nightclub versus a stage. What's different about, or is there anything
different about how you work in the different contexts.

Reborn: There is something different about how I work, depending on what

setting I'm in. To DJ at a smaller bar lounge is a bit more relaxing. You
know you can just kind of do you and be creative, and the stakes are
not high because people are chilling, you know, so you can relax a bit.
If I'm doing a theater thing, that's a bit more nerve wracking because so
much of that is about hitting cues and there's not, it's like coloring inside
the lines. In this particular setting I have to stay within the lines
otherwise other things get thrown off, if I'm off.

Rekha: You're keeping the time.

Reborn: I'm keeping the time literally. So that's different, my focus has to be
different in that setting. It's like wearing different hats or turning on
different parts of your brain. And then when I'm in front of huge crowds,
it's very daunting and nerve-racking, but my strategy with myself is to
try to just enjoy being in the moment and not focus on how many
people, how many eyes are on me. You know it's like I get a lay of the
land and I'm like OK there's twenty thousand people here I know that
this song is going to work for 50 percent of them.

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 I try to have a diverse set so that everybody in the crowd hears
something that they like and that they remember that they're having an
experience and they're being taken on a journey, as opposed to it just
some DJ slamming records together.

Rekha: And you're set. Does it change when you're on tour? Is your set
different in different spaces, or you've been trying to adapt to like the
locale or...?

Reborn: So when I'm on tour, the sets have some staples, some go to's that I
know work no matter where I am. And then I try to modify it based on
where we are. So if we're in a particular city, country, I usually try to
play music from that place, from artists that are from that place. Just as
I a nod to knowing where I am and wanting to represent the sound of
that place in my set if I can, just out of respect for being there.

Rekha: Nice. So we were starting there, and then conversation went in different
directions. But you started with vinyl and what do you use now? What's
your preferred method?

Reborn: My preferred DJ gear setup now is still two technique, twelve hundred
turntables or twelve tens or whatever. A Rane mixer now is my
preference like, Rane or Pioneer mixers are great to me. Rane 62 or
the Pioneer S9, yeah. So that's still my preferred thing. So turntables,
Pioneer, Rane mixer, Serato is what I use but I still like to use vinyl too.
I just don't get to do it as often, and then I don't mind working on some
controllers. Some DJ controllers. It's like I can work on anything. I can
work on CDJs, I can work on turntables, I can work on a controller. I
like that I feel comfortable and all of it at this point. When I started off
with vinyl I was very resistant to CDs.

Rekha: Yeah.

Reborn: I eventually had to get good at using CDJs but I used to dread it.
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Reborn: Yeah. Yeah. You still prefer a vinyl. What is it about vinyl that you
prefer?

Reborn: It's just the feeling of it. It's being able to touch records, it's the control,
it's the muscle memory of how I learned. I think that I just have an
attachment to the process of putting my hands on records and
manipulating in that very specific way of how you fast forward or rewind
the vinyl or cue things up or adjust the needle or clean the needle off,
like all the little rituals, small pieces of doing the work is why I like those
tools.

Rekha: Rituals slash obstacles.

Reborn: Right! But it's like using your instrument.

Rekha: So the turntables are the instrument.

Reborn: Yeah for sure the turntables are the instrument.

Rekha: Do you use any specific techniques when you mix, do scratch, do
you...? Are there specific things you do other than play song after
song? Just curious.

Reborn: Yeah. So my style when I'm DJing is I do some scratching, I do some

cutting. I'm not necessarily great at those things, but I'm good enough
to utilize them decoratively when I'm DJing. So not every mix is gonna
get a scratch or cut. But I do love beat matching, I do love blending. I
do love letting songs have conversations with each other. That makes
sense coming out of the speaker. I like being able to shift energy based
on what record I play next.

Rekha: We touched upon it a little bit earlier that the technology that's
available, the BPM's being apparent, even the key signatures if you
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 want, the keys the song's in. How does all that, does it help? Does it
matter? Does it aid your practice?

Reborn: You mean the technology?

Rekha: What's your relationship to the technology of today in terms of DJing.

Reborn: Well my relationship to it is my relationship to that to the technology

with my DJing at this point is me taking responsibility for understanding
it enough to use it pretty well to troubleshoot if there are problems with
it and fix the issue and understand it. It's convenience and just try to
use that to the best of my ability. So for me the technology is
transactional. I mean it gives me something and then I try to take care
of it right. So it's the convenience of it is great. I haven't cracked every
part of that program open and really tinkered with it, but it's like I have a
pedestrian-it's more than a pedestrian ability-but you know it's like I
know a lot about it. I don't know everything about it. And I use it for
good, but I'm not attached to it as a thing.

Rekha: You don't know everything about it. Do you think you need to know
everything about it?

Reborn: No. I don't think you need to know everything about it, but I would like
to know more, and I could stand to utilize some tricks that could unlock
in the program.

Rekha: Who do you think your audience is. It's a very open-ended question.

Reborn: I pretty much. It might sound conceited or something, I don't know, I

think I can play for any audience, and I like to. I feel like my audience
are people that are really open, musically, mentally, spiritually,
energetically so that they aren't going to get angry if they don't hear a
Drake song every 10 minutes. You know what I mean, it doesn't mean
you won't hear that coming from me. It just means that like 10 minutes
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 ago I was over there. Now I'm over here. Fifteen minutes from now I'm
gonna be over there, and it's gonna make sense. But you have to trust,
you know, Rimarkable has this T-shirt that says, "Baby trust your DJ."
You know, it's just like just... It's the only job in the world where
everyone feels like they can tell you how to do it better than you do it,
when they don't do it, as you're doing it! And they've never done it.

Reborn: Do you feel like you're part of a DJ community?

Rekha: Yes I definitely feel like I'm part of a DJ community.

Reborn: How would you describe that community?

Reborn: It's a huge community that has cliques and pockets and crews and
people that do things together, more as a collective. I feel like I know
these different pockets and the different crews of people and that my
community of DJs is made up of individuals that work together in
groups sometimes, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes we
collaborate, sometimes we don't. And I haven't had an affiliated crew
since Ubiquita. But yeah.

Rekha: Who's in this crew? Could you describe it a little bit?

Reborn: Well obviously, you know, Selly, Rimarkable.

Rekha: So are these mostly women?

Reborn: Spinna. A lot of women. Monday blue. Natasha Diggs, who else...
there's so many people.

Rekha: Brooklyn, New York based mostly?

Reborn: Yeah mostly New York based. My nephew's a big DJ in Chicago. He's
part of my DJ community too. Yeah. I feel like it's just a bunch of DJs
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 who I personally love, who I think are really incredible voices in the DJ
world in their own right. You knowm the Riches, the Bobbitos.

Rekha: Do you book your own gigs?

Reborn: Yes I book my own gigs. I do wish I had an agent, and a manager. I do.

Rekha: It's a blessing and a curse. I've had it all and I've had. I've had every
iteration. Right now I'm down to a fake virtual assistant.

Reborn: Okay. At least you have that.

Rekha: No it's me, posing as somebody else on the e-mail. And you can do
that too. Just come up with a name. And she's been fired, hired,
applauded and it just adds a layer.

Reborn: Yeah I'll consider it.

Rekha: Have you ever felt unsafe while you've been spinning?

Reborn: Unsafe.

Rekha: Like take it anyway you want. Like physically unsafe, or you know, like
in a space where y maybe you're spinning around drunk people, or
someone's being request-y, or whatever that means to you.

Reborn: Yes of course. Yes.

Rekha: Could you give me a nugget.

Reborn: I think feeling unsafe in DJing, the things that come to mind are like
maybe on one of these tour dates recently, when Miss Hill was super
late and I was out there for a really long time and people were getting
really upset, and I was like it just would take one person throwing
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 something at me for it to get wild in here because people were restless
but that was sort of like I had a tinge of like, "Mmhmm! If she doesn't
show up right now, I don't know what's gonna happen." And then
because Ding is a lot of times in environments where there are lots of
men. There sometimes can just be that twinge or that feeling of like,
you know. Especially if people can get to your DJ booth or wherever
you're DJing. It doesn't always feel so good to be that vulnerable which
is why DJ booths are preferable. So people can't necessarily just walk
right up to you. That kind of it, like you said, with drunk people, fights
break out. Shit starts getting thrown and you're like, "Oh I better duck
under these turntables."

Rekha: Have you had issues or anything dealing with venues, or in terms of
like the business side of getting paid? This is your living, right, you can
reveal as much about that as you feel comfortable. Do you think your
gender has played any role in those instances?

Reborn: Oh absolutely my gender has played a role in that. I mean, look, we live
in patriarchy, we live in a sexist society and oppression and white
supremacy is just real. I'm a black woman DJ. :eople are going to try to
test you. And I've been tested, and that's another reason why I don't
think I'm interested in doing my own events. Because dealing with that
side of things of having to logistically deal with anything from getting my
money, to just logistical stuff. I'm not into it. Yes of course, venues and
promoters have tried to not pay, or promised one thing and did
something else. It's tricky sometimes only because you can do
everything in your power to articulate, solidify details, all that stuff, and
if at the end of the night somebody comes to you with empty hands
you've already done your work. So a lot of that is around doing it long
enough, and having hopefully a strong enough reputation that anything
coming in is actually reputable, and you're not going to have to fight for
your money.

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Rekha: I recall that magazine shoot. There was at least two times we were
involved in some sort of shoot.

Reborn: We were in Seventeen Magazine.

Rekha: You were in Seventeen? Then there was that other one. Like the
Seventeen magazine shoot which was me. I was in that too. Yeah. And
then they had like they had some DJs and some models. And then
when it came out they had a white guy with a chain and they called him
DJ Chain Snatcher and he was not a DJ. Mihoko was in that. Yeah.
They somehow talked me into bringing all my gear. Talked me or I like
was trying to be nice. And was the last person there at the very last.
You know whatever.

Then there was another magazine shoot we were in for this magazine
called suede. Yeah. Where they took a bunch of women DJ. And they
shot us separately and put it together in some panorama. And I just
remember they had the DJ gear set up completely wrong. The pieces
were floating the turntables were next to a mixer. I was like, "Yo." You
gotta make this look like it's real, and this Gemini mixer, you gotta put a
black tape over there." I'm not ever trying to be on a Gemini mixer. Oh
they had a bad, because that was everyone's first mixer because it was
so cheap. One of them made a farting noise. They had all these really
awful effects on them. I actually went to small claims court because it
was so terrible. The first time I used a credit card, I bought a mixer.
That's how I got into consumer debt.

Opportunities in terms of professional opportunities, do you think any of

that is affected by your gender? I mean it's always a soup of things in
terms of your contemporaries. Or do you think the way you approach
the actual art or when you're in the room spinning, any part of your
technique is different or your method? Does your gender play any role
in terms of your professional standing or opportunities and just the

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 physicality of DJing, is it anyway influenced, or do you think, in any way
related to your gender.

Reborn: I do think that obviously gender plays a role, just like race does, in the
opportunities that come or don't come. I used to feel more stringently
about not getting more opportunities, and I would sort of have this self-
pitying narrative about it in my head, because DJing is like anything in
the world, and a lot of times you get more opportunities based on how
people perceive you, whether they think you're attractive or not, or
whatever those things are. So people are operating from all kinds of
places that have nothing to do with me. So I think I had to learn to just
put my head down and keep doing the work and know that whatever
was supposed to happen for me would happen for me and if it didn't,
that was not a reflection of me not being good at my work.

I have to keep reminding myself that I'm good at what I do and I get
plenty of amazing opportunities, and not every opportunity is meant for
me. But some of those opportunities don't happen I'm sure, because
I'm not a man, but plenty of things happen because I'm not a man that
are good. You know opportunity is to work with or to be, you know, I
think it's really powerful to be the opening DJ for an artist like Lauryn
Hill because she could pick anybody. She could have a dude, which
she has had or person not of color or a man or whatever. I think that it's
really powerful when people get to see a black woman DJing in a major
setting, like in a you know huge arena or whatever that is, just because
it's not a common sight. So I know that it's powerful. And so I think my
focus is just on that. On trying to be like powerful and visible.

Reborn: And then the physicality. Was that your other question?

Rekha: So let's say gender, race the intersectionality-ness of who you are, and
if you want to break them out separately or not, do you think that's
different? Does that affect, in terms of how you actually play or spin?

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Reborn: Sure absolutely

Rekha: Unpack that a little bit if you can.

Reborn: This is why for me DJs are very interesting people, because whatever
the story is, whatever our story is, whatever our lens is, everybody
comes to the craft with a narrative and a lens that is about how their life
was shaped. So for me, being able to play songs that have an
emotional pull for a lot of people, like a lot of people have an emotional
reaction to certain songs and that's a commonality. That's a part of how
as a DJ you're able to unite energies in a space. So for me, I think
growing up a black girl in Chicago, only around black people mostly
until like the age of 12 or something and then being exposed to all
different kinds of people which meant more music coming into my ears,
that would never have come in, and all of these things inform how I play
and sort of how I approach things.

The one thing is that, again, hopefully my sets are diverse, because
when I was a teenager and listening to like New Wave and stuff in the
80s, that I don't think I would have been listening to had we not moved
to a suburb. I might have, but I don't know. These things inform me. So
if I'm gonna DJ said it's gonna incorporate all the things that I
personally love that have an emotional pull for me. So that's gonna be
funk and soul, that's gonna be hip-hop, that's gonna be reggae, that's
gonna be house music, that's gonna be rock, that's gonna be new
wave, that's gonna be 80's, that's gonna be whatever all the things are
that have an emotional resonance for mem I'm trying to share and play.
So bringing all those things to the work. And then my style of DJing.
Yeah I just feel like I'm bringing hopefully the diverse way that I like to
listen to music. I hope that that's what I'm presenting. And part of that is
being able to be a person that can say I grew up with music in my
household. I grew up around musical people. I grew up with parents
that loved music and so it's always been around me. I just have had to
figure out a way, and DJing became that vehicle, for me to share how
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 much music has meant to me. And that's just how I get to do it. But it's
meant so much to me because it's had to save me on so many different
levels, whether that's something around race or something around
being a woman or whatever that is. Because you know as well as I do
that in music there are so many songs that address things that affect
us. We were talking about The Miseducation, and that album really
changing you as a young woman because you're listening to this
powerful young woman talk about her journey and that means
something.

Rekha: And for that album specifically, the interstitials. I mean she's a little bit
younger than me but she grew up in an African-American suburban
setting, it was very similar to where I grew up. It felt like I had a teacher
like that, that would ask those things and say, "Miss Hill". Those things
really connected to me and just the sound created on that album. She
blended all these styles and made that flow and she's a damn good
rapper.

Reborn: She's one of the baddest MCs still.

Rekha: She really is. And the lyrics are just layered and they have quadruple
meanings and it's just you know word mastery at its finest.

Reborn: Agreed.

Rekha: And musical mastery as well. You gotta listen to that podcast.

There's two. New York Times has this podcast of these two critics and
they broke down her album. They broke her down on the album, so it's
just like one episode. And this other one is like multi episodes, and it's
you know, when you love something and you just wanna hear people
who love it as much as you, you just identify with it in a different way. I
love that.

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 If somebody wanted to be a DJ today, what would you say to them? Is
it a viable profession?

Reborn: Oh absolutely. DJing is more viable now than I think it's ever been,
because people take it more seriously. People value it more than they
used to. And there are a million different ways that DJs get utilized in
culture now.

Rekha: But this against streaming and playlists still.

Reborn: For the people that think DJing is nothing, they're going to feel that way
no matter what. So they're not going to necessarily find the value in it. I
find that people gained respect for it and found value in it when they
tried to do it. So when I'm a teacher, and we would do like these one-off
weekend workshops where people would come and do like two hours
of DJ instruction in a day, two or three hours. That was where the
respect came in and they always would leave class and be like, "Oh I
totally have way more respect for DJs now than I did before I took this
class."

Rekha: So we're saying this should be mandatory education.

Reborn: It should be mandatory education!

Rekha: Before you make a request, you should learn. And that is the gospel.

Reborn: Yes exactly. So yeah I would just say it to any new DJ starting now,
have a genuine passion for what you play. And figure out how to tell
stories with what you love to play. Think about what you're playing and
the way you're playing it affects the environment.

Rekha: Well that's deep. Do you do say no to gigs?

Reborn: Yes.
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Rekha: Why.

Reborn: Because it seems not worth it. Sometimes it may be. It's not even really
just money all the time, which is one of the beautiful things about where
I'm at with what I do as a DJ, is that I have some gigs that pay very little
money and I have some gigs that pay way too much money. But I say
that to say that for me it's critical for me to have balance in the kinds of
gigs that I do, so that nothing feels like that's beneath me. I would
never feel that or say that about a thing. But maybe I've already paid
that due you know. I mean I paid those dues to do a gig like that and I
don't see myself fitting in that space.

Rekha: What kind of gig is that?

Reborn: So that might be a gig that is more on the commercial side in terms of
what they expect you to play. That might be a gig where the sound is
terrible in the venue and the bar and they don't care about the sound
and your ears are bleeding, and I just don't even want to play on that. It
could be the people involved seem disorganized and like they want to
get the benefit of having a seasoned professional DJ play but they don't
want to compensate for that or they don't want to make sure that things
are organized and proper and professional. So if something feels
unprofessional like it's going to be more work than what I'm willing to
put out. I've turned down gigs that pay well because I didn't like
whatever the project was.

Rekha: Same here. I haven't turned down many because I haven't been in that
position but I once did this weird gig for an after party for Devo. It was
weird. I mean I get the Indian minstrel show gigs. You know so they
want to do some Indian thing and that time Bombay Dreams was on
Broadway. So they had the actors from Bombay Dreams collab with
parts of Devo. And so I played this really wide range of Indian
influenced stuff and my friend's cousin, rich, rich Bay Area friend was
there and fell in love with what I was doing because she's like Indian
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 and she wanted like hybrid, the Indian and not Indian and she was just
like all about it. And at that time I had someone who was assisting me
with booking, and so she got our info and I quoted her ridiculous price.
But she was getting married in a year. Now you know how our lives are.
You don't know what you're doing a year from now. And she didn't even
blink at the price at that time. I was like I think it was 10 G's or
something or something stupid. You know, sometimes you want to test
people.

Reborn: Oh yeah. Because you're like, "They're not going to say yes to this."
But sometimes you gotta just do it.

Rekha: There's unfortunately no formula. They said yes right away. Blah blah
blah blah blah. And she said OK. So she talked to my person. She's
like, "Ok, send me, my fiance, my mobile and e-mail this and that." And
I was like, "You know what. I'm not taking it." And I was not in a position
to say no to some of that kind of money because I would have said half
up front. I thought, "You know what. She's going to call me every day
for a year."

Reborn: Right. And it's not going to be worth it.

Rekha: They got DJ Aqeel from India. He was like #1 DJ in India. At some
point, nightclubs. He doesn't do gigs without flying first class, and then
my friend ended up shooting the wedding. She's a photographer and
got stiffed. So I did the right thing.

Reborn: Wow. You made the right choice.

Rekha: So yeah the spidey sense comes in. You know you can just kind of feel
the vibes in these lives are wrong, you know. It happens. What are
some of your favorite gigs to play, if you have them.

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Reborn: My favorite gigs to play again are gigs where I get to play with friends.
People who I know enjoy DJing as much as I do and just want to have
fun playing together. Those are my favorite kind of gigs, is if I can play
with friends.

Rekha: And you do that a lot?

Reborn: No I don't get to do it often but that's why, mostly my friends who have
residences if they asked me to be a guest, I will always say yes. Just
because it's an opportunity to play with them.

Rekha: Right. Right. Right.

Reborn: But those are my favorite kind of gigs. Gigs where I get to share space
with other DJs that I know are like into the craft of it. My other favorite
kind of gigs to play now are these big gigs. Only because I'm
challenged to see what works in those spaces like I'm learning so much
on this tour because the audiences are so big and I have to manage so
many things. I have to technically be good, I have to have an
interesting selection. I never know exactly how long my set is going to
be I'm trying to like pace things out in a certain kind of way.

Rekha: Wow that's really stressful.

Reborn: And then have personality and be engaging with the crowd because it's
my inclination, and just put my head down and mix mix mix mix mix.

Rekha: So what do you do when you sing? How do you engage with the
crowd?

Reborn: I do a lot more stuff on the mic than I usually like to do. And I just sort of
have my little things that I've developed over time that I think help keep
the energy up. So talking on the mic is some of that. Some of it is
crowd participation. I ask questions or you know I'll cut the music when
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 I know everybody knows the lyric, those things and just talking to
people, engaging with people, asking questions. Dancing to stuff that I
love. Just all those things that it's like, look I'm here too. Let's just have
fun with this.

Reborn: Yeah that's right. I'm waiting for her too.

Rekha: I think also when you start out you have a nervousness to get it right.
I'm always about looking in the room for the crowd. But I did this gig
once in the Bronx Museum. I don't know how I got on the bill with Kid
Capri because I did not deserve to be there. It was one of these like
super Bronx things, and I think I learned such a lesson that day. He
was having so much fun. He was having so much fun. He was singing
every song, he was talking to the crowd. He's so Bronx, right. I was
like, "What part of Bronx you from". He's like, "Ok you know like." And I
was like, "Oh if I look like I'm having fun, then you have to have fun."

Reborn: Right. Exactly.

Rekha: Which wasn't exactly comfortable and I think for me being queer adds
another dimension, being gender nonconforming. What you're allowed.
You know, it's like whatever. Women are always told to smile, and
things like that and I think that happens.

Have you ever had to share DJ space that you didn't want to, or that
was off, or transitioning, were you on a lineup or something? How do
you negotiate that?

Reborn: It's gonna sound weird and formal, but I do think that there's such a
thing as a DJ etiquette.

Rekha: Elaboratel think there is DJ etiquette and I think you should.. .What is
DJ etiquette?

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Reborn: For me DJ etiquette is just we both know what's going on here. So if
we're transitioning between each other as DJs, there are certain things
that you do and don't do. You, for instance, want to make sure that if
you're playing the last song of your set before somebody else has to
come on, there's enough time in that song to make the transition. They
can do what they need to do, you can do it you need to do, and you're
not leaving somebody hanging with like a minute in the song and being
like, "Here, take over." When it's not that moment. Part of the etiquette
is make sure your co-DJ or the other DJ is ready before you let go of
the wheel. You know what I mean. Some people just get out of the car
and the car is still going, and you're like, "Wait! You didn't let me get in
the seat and put my hands on the wheel." So just having this
mindfulness that when you pass the torch it has to be done seamlessly.
So that it's not awkward.

And also being respectful and kind. If this is a person that you've never
DJ with before, finding out their name and having a level of just like
cordialness to you, where you're just like, "How you doing?" Just you're
a human being doing the same work I'm doing. Let's make this easy for
both of us.

And then it's also having your own stuff. I mean I know that people
leave stuff behind. I have been guilty of being like, "Oh crap, I forgot my
needles and the other bag," or I did this, I did that, which is why you
should have your little mental checklist. But I don't like how sometimes
there are some celebrity DJs or big name DJs that I know. They don't
show up with anything. They don't have headphones. They don't have
needles, they don't have headphones, they don't have nothing. And
you're like, "But this is what you do, and you're so big, that you should
be getting all the stuff free from companies. I'm sure you do. So for you
to not have the basic tools..."

Rekha: Or they think the venue should do it and the venue doesn't bother. No,
but I mean I was trained, I don't know how, but you always had your
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 headphones,your slipmats, your needles. Like always. Like if you forgot
once in a while, it's ok.

And the other etiquette is know your time slot. Play to the room. Don't
play fast music when it's the beginning of the night. Don't play all the
good songs before it's time. Help build the vibe.

Reborn: Exactly. Agreed. 100 percent.

Rekha: I've had to deal with a lot of Indian male DJs before I go on. They'll try
to play songs, they'll basically, they're upstaging.

Reborn: I hate that. And I also feel like part of the etiquette is knowing the gear.
It's very frustrating when there is another DJ who is maybe billed the
same as you, but they don't know how to handle the equipment and
you're like...

Rekha: How important is knowing the gear? Is that part of the work?

Reborn: Absolutely. Anything you choose to do in the world, you have to know
the tools that make the craft happen. And to your point from earlier, I
may not know everything, but I know how to troubleshoot 20 times
over, because I had to learn, because that's when you get
embarrassed, that's when you mess up, that's when the sound stops.
So I pride myself to have been able to learn when things go wrong, or
to detect something is gonna go wrong and stop it from happening. And
I just think that that's being sharp with the work. You have to be
prepared to know how the engine runs.

Rekha: I mean and also, super nerd it out. Try to refresh myself. We know
people who check in with Serato once in a while, what's your new shit.
Due diligence in keeping up, just professionally keeping up.

Reborn: Exactly.
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Rekha: Ok last question. This is out of sequence, I should have asked in the
beginning, I'm just clumsy with this. What is your DJ name and where
does it come from?

Reborn: My DJ name is DJ Reborn, like born again, reborn, and it came when I
was considering changing my DJ name from the first name that I had.
Because it was a dumn name and I kind of chose it quickly and it didn't
really make any sense and whatever. So I had been thinking for so long
that I wanted to change the name. I knew going into that name that I
wasn't gonna be a permanent name, but it stopped for a couple of
years, I think. And so I was out with my boyfriend at the time in Oakland
one night, we were at some little shitty bar and one of those, you know
those digital read out signs, like they have them at the bodega.

Rekha: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Reborn: They have them with different advertisements. So we were at this place
and they had one of those digital boards and stuff was going by and
then it said something, something, and then it just said "reborn" in red
lights. And "reborn" was just suspended there and I was like, "That's my
new DJ name!" That was it. It just clicked in my head and I was like, "It
sounds like my name, which is Robyn, but the idea, what I thought
about the literal definition of being reborn, and rebirth and this constant,
constant renewal and the responsibility to kind of keep reinventing
yourself and making yourself new and I liked that idea. And then I was
like reborn, that's a feeling I would like for people to have when they
hear me playing. So that was it.

Rekha: Awesome. All right, well, I'm done. So is there anything you want to add
or anything.

Reborn: Just that you're awesome and thank you for doing this important work,
and I'm so excited to be able to read it and hear it, and thank you for

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 making space and wanting to communicate the stories of all of us in
this world.

Rekha: Yeah, I mean, I think what really struck me about our conversation is
the fact that you've been doing this for 20 years at least. No, '92. That
would be 27 years. You've been in New York for 20 years. And for you
to DJ on tour is still not, it's still a big deal. And that to me was the most
like yeah, you know what, you're right, it is a big deal because there's a
super, I mean there's so many segments of DJing and DJ culture and
festivals and you know, whatever. But that's still like surprising in some
way.

Reborn: I agree.

Rekha And that's ridiculous.

Reborn: I agree. It's so crazy into my brain all the time. The only other thing I will
say is this full circle. For me one of the things, particularly about this
tour is like, because of how much I love this artist and I love that album,
I just can't believe that I get to do that, you know what I mean. For me
it's full circle because the album changed my life, it meant so much to
me, she meant so much to me, and I'll say this one last thing, actually
that I just remembered. So 20 years ago, in '99 the year that Lauryn Hill
won those Grammys. She won the five Grammys. I strangely got
booked to DJ the after party for her Grammy party. It was like one of
my first gigs in New York and I was so excited. I still have the
handwritten invoice that I gave to whoever hired me from Sony or
whatever, and I was so amped because I was just so into her. And the
party was just at some weird random place and my setup wasn't great.
It didn't really feel much like a party, it was like a receiving area. But
Lauryn Hill came through and I was so excited, and she one thousand
percent did not see me. Like a hundred thousand million percent. But I
assumed, I was like, "I'm a black girl DJ, she's going to see me, we're
going to love each other, it's going to be amazing." And she just floated
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 through the room and said hi to some people and she was gone. I was
so sad because I felt like, "Oh I thought I was going to get to meet this
woman, and she would think it was so cool that I was DJing." And it
didn't happen. And now fast forward literally 20 years later, I have the
gig because she was at a party I DJed, and I never even saw her. She
tracked me down like three months later after that party. So that's how I
got this gig, the tour gig. I was DJing a holiday party in Harlem. Last
December. She happened to be at the party. I never even saw her. A
couple of people were like Lauryn Hill is here, and I was like, "Oh cool."
And then nothing. I just never saw her and then I heard she was gone
pretty quickly. She wasn't there for much of my set.

Rekha: I went to a party you did. You did some birthday. Fortieth birthday party
for Kara Walker.

Reborn: Oh yeah.

Rekha: That was a fun party.

Reborn: Yeah. She's so great.

Rekha: So she tracked you down.

Reborn: She had someone get my number. And then months later I got a call
from her right hand person and then that's how this whole thing started.

You know, when I first got put in contact with her, she sent me a text,
and she said, "Hey Reborn." I was like, I don't know how she knows
me. And they didn't know either, her people, they're like, I don't know.
So when she texted me, she was like-

Rekha: Hey the boss wants to talk to you.

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Reborn: Exactly. And she was like, "hey Reborn, I was at a party that you DJed
last December, and I enjoyed myself immensely. I want to talk to you
about some things." And that's just how it started. But the other thing
that I will say to young DJs, too, or new DJs, is you never know who's
listening and I want to say that my biggest professional opportunities
have come from me just putting my head down and doing the work and
someone happened to be listening. That changed my life. That altered
the course of my professional experience, because they were in a room
and I had no idea they were there.

Rekha: Well that's great advice. It's like dance like no one's watching, or play
like everyone's listening.

Reborn: Exactly.

Rekha: Awesome, awesome. Great.

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Interview Transcript:

Rimarkable

200
 (Edited) Interview with Rimarkable

Rimarkable: My name is Maria Elena Garcia also known as Rimarkable.

Rekha: Let's just get started. I wanted to interview you because I'm a fan.
We've worked together briefly for a very weird gig. We could get into
that very weird gig. But I just want to approach, just want to get some
very basic organic background of how did you become a DJ. Where did
it start? And feel free to go as in detail as you want to, I'll ask follow up
questions as we unfold your story.

Rimarkable: Okay interestingly enough I'm I've been asked this question a lot
recently. And thank you for giving me permission to go as deep as I'd
like to go. Because it just kind of spark some ideas in my head. I think I
became a DJ out of rebellion. You know, there's a very simple
explanation how I became a DJ. But I wanted to be a DJ out of
rebellion. My love for music and all sorts of genres came out of
rebellion. I come from a very staunch Christian household where my
mother was, or is, also a classically trained pianist. So I was raised
strictly on classical and gospel music. And I have older siblings who
had more access to worldly music. what we call worldly music, secular
music. So I was very introduced to a broad spectrum of music, popular
music, black music and just all kinds of music, honestly. Being from a
place that is known for its music.

Rekha: What is that place?

Rimarkable So I'm from Detroit. A place that is you know very famous for its music
not just Motown but also techno music. There's also there was there
was a ton of music around. Detroit is also known for its Rock n Roll. So
all those layers, all those things intertwining in the DNA of the city,
being programmed into me subconsciously when I gained access to it.

201
 It inspired me to not just retain the knowledge of it being there but also
to like use it as an act of resistance, because the fact that I was
confined in my household or in front of my mother who was the
authoritative figure in my life, the fact I was confined and restricted of
only listening to two kinds of genres, it made me want to rebel and go
against it and I had all this ammunition, which is like all the knowledge
of all this different kind of music from rock music to country music to
soul music to disco to funk to house to hip-hop. All of that. Had all of
that because I would absorb everything. I was addicted to music. Also I
was a latchkey kid, so I spent an exorbitant amount of time by myself.
So I was able to explore these genres, and culture and television also
heavily influenced me. I grew up in the MTV generation and I just had
all these things coming at me. And I also was always kind of afraid to
really be out there with it because I had this restriction.

Rekha: Just so we can have some context and demographic information, you
were born in Detroit?

Rimarkable: I actually was born in Lansing. Which is the capitol, but I was raised in
Detroit and also in Chicago.

Rekha: Chicago, of course, known for House music, and has its own music
culture.

Rimarkable: I spent a long time after college in Ann Arbor. Detroit was the most
present in my life. The most consistent thing in my life. So it's just much
easier for me to say that.

Rekha: Sure. And sometimes people need one place where you're from.

Rimarkable: They don't want to hear all that. I was raised like Army brats, you know.

Rekha: So were you an army brat?

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Rimarkable: No, I mean, like and army brat, it's very difficult to say where you're
from.

Rekha: And where you're from is a loaded question for anyone, especially for
immigrants as well, as people who are not seen as part of whatever.

Rimarkable: Yeah and I have that also, you know my father is an immigrant from
Puerto Rico. He immigrated to the U.S. before it was considered a
colony.

Rekha: Because technically he's not an immigrant because he's Puerto Rican.

Rimarkable: Yeah, technically the American United States owns Puerto Rico now,
but before he came here not speaking a lick of English, 6th grade
education, and moved to Chicago where he met my mother. And they
had five kids and they migrated to Michigan.

Rekha: You're number five.

Rimarkable: I'm number five.

Rekha: Exactly.

Rekha: Hence the older sibling.

Rimarkable: I'm actually the only sibling that was born in Michigan. Everyone else
was born in Chicago.

Rekha: OK. So you're a little special.

Rimarkable: Super special.

Rekha: Is there a lot of age difference between you and your next sibling?

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Rimarkable: Large. My next sibling is seven years. The one after that is 10 years,
and then 14 and then the oldest is 20.

Rekha: Wow. They spaced it out.

Rimarkable: Yeah exactly. Grateful for those age differences because they brought
me a lot of information from their experiences musically. So I'm very
grateful to have seen hip-hop be born.

Rekha: Same.

Rimarkable: I grew up in that. You being from New York, you definitely-

Rekha: The greatest blessing ever. To be born at time I was born because we
literally saw it spring up.

Rimarkable: Yeah I remember everything my brother was a B-Boy. I saw

everything happen. I remember when the launch of MTV happened.

Rekha: Absolutely.

Rimarkable: I remember Michael Jackson.

Rekha: We weren't allowed to have MTV.

Rimarkable: We weren't allowed either. My mom cut the cable like probably in
like '86, '87. But I remember watching the MTV launch.

Rekha: I used to babysit at my uncle's house and they had cable. My parents
didn't have cable. They just didn't think it was worth the money.

Rimarkable: Yeah, I primarily didn't grow up with cable.

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Rekha: And so every time I went to babysit I was like fiending for MTV. And
then my uncle who's very uptight, was like, "Do not watch it in front of
the kids, because these people do lots of drugs to stay awake."

Rimarkable: Oh my god, that's so funny.

Rekha: He's was like, "Don't watch it." So I would do overnight babysitting, and
the minute the kids would sleep, I was in it. Yeah.

Rimarkable: So yeah I always had to watch it a cousin's house.

Rekha: So you gave a really amazing context and will, I would say, you gave a
motivation for how you got involved in DJing. I want to unpack a little bit
about the technical beginnings of your desire, and how you decided of
all ways to rebel and to express yourself musically. What is your
technical story? When is a first time you saw DJ or you tried or you had
access? How did you learn, and let's start there. How did you learn?

Rimarkable: Well the first time I saw DJ would be probably in the hip-hop context
you know and it was probably on television, honestly. I don't remember
the day I was like, "I want to do that."

Rekha: Did you see Rocket on TV, was that a little bit before your time?

Rimarkable: The Rocket, the Rocket, Don't Stop, that one?

Rekha: Yeah technically speaking, the first time DJing was shown on TV was
Herbie Hancock did Rocket on the Grammys or something.

Rimarkable: That might have been it.

Rekha: And that clip has been really replayed and replayed, so you know.

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Rimarkable: Quite frankly that might have been it, because anything on television I
could get my hands on that had to do with music, I was all over it.
Yeah, and I always knew what a DJ was but I had it in the context of
hip-hop, the mixing and scratching.

I was making mix tapes and I didn't know that I was DJing in a sense
because I was like a lot of kids back in the day, we had our tape decks.
We would record pause tapes off the radio. And I was doing that, I
didn't know it was a whole phenomenon. I just was doing it. I remember
pausing my tape, the record button, to match another song that I would
wait to come on, and I would program my playlist. Basically I would
essentially know what I wanted to play next and I would pause my tape
to do that. And there was some beautiful moments in all of that
pausing, like the tape would a slur, or it would some kind of way have
an effect, or it would cut the person, the announcer from speaking in
the middle of a sentence, and it would hit right back into, or will bleed
into it, because you would put some tape over the little holes. You
would just keep taping and taping. And I still have a lot of my tapes. I
have a lot of funky stuff on there.

Rekha: You should digitize it.

Rimarkable: I know I've got to figure out how to do that.

Rekha: It's so easy. I can help you offline. I'm definitely going to help you do
that.

Rimarkable: OK.

Rekha: As my small token for your time, I will happily digitize your tapes, its not
hard.

Rimarkable: Thank you so much. I would love that, because I need that.

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 But when I was in college, I decided out of rebellion, I'm not going to go
back home this summer.

Rekha: Where did you go to college?

Rimarkable: So I went to college in Ann Arbor.

Rekha: You decided not to go home one summer.

Rimarkable: I decided not to go home one summer. And so I had a friend and my
best friend at the time, we decided we were going to get an apartment.
And I was like, yeah, because I'm not going home this summer. It was
right after sophomore year and I was like, "Well shit, I better get a job."
And I'm waiting last minute trying to find a job, trying to find a job and
there was this ad in the paper, in my school paper that was like, wanna
be a DJ, or looking for DJs, blah blah blah. Hit us up.

Hit them up. They called me in for an interview. I remember I was late
because I got lost, and still made it and they were pretty much over me
when I walked in because I was so late. But they gave me a little music
test, which was like the most obscure random, almost like big band and
70's and 80's, stuff you play at a wedding or whatever. And they were
so impressed that I got them all right. Like, who the hell is this girl?

Rekha: Why does she know this stuff?

Rimarkable: How does she know, who is this girl? Right. You know. And they were
like ok wait a minute, you know, because nobody gets all of these right.
It was a mobile company and I told them like, "Look I don't have any
experience. I'm down to learn. You see I have the knowledge. Help
me!" And I was not getting paid jack during my training.

Rekha: Free training as they like to call it.

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Rimarkable: Free training. Free for them. But I learned how to use equipment, I
learned how to troubleshoot. They had turntables, they had techniques,
but I also learned from the beginnings of the CDJ.

Rekha: So I can't resist going diving deep. Mobile DJ companies, so it means

that they get hired to do events. They bring everything to the situation,
and spin.

Rimarkable: So we're talking weddings, bar mitzvahs, proms, grand openings stuff
like that.

Rekha: So in DJ land, there are certain types categories and divisions, and
mobile DJs are one particular division, as one could say.

Rimarkable: And they're also considered kind of corny.

Rekha: Yeah, absolutely.

Rimarkable: But I was just so enthralled and excited to be a DJ.

Rekha: I personally think it's the best training a DJ can have.

Rimarkable: I think it is also because it has prepared me for so much.

Rekha: Because you have to make it work. You've got to work with a lot of age
groups.

Rimarkable: I mean it taught me how to read a crowd. You know what I mean?
Honestly it taught me how to read a crowd, how to play for anybody. I
know how to play for anyone. I've done it all. I've done christenings to
weddings to bar mitzvahs to funerals, like I've done it all, backyard
barbecues, grand openings, proms, you name it. I've done this shit, you
know.

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Rekha: So let's go back, because I just want to know about the gear.

Rimarkable: Yeah so there was two techniques.

Rekha: Do you remember the needles they had? Do you remember the
cartridges they had.

Rimarkable: No I don't.

Rekha: Whatever. What was the mixer?

Rimarkable: The mixture was like this four channel Gemini bullshit, you know what I
mean.

Rekha: Ugh Gemini, it's the worst.

Rimarkable: It was bullshit, you know.

Rimarkable: And the speakers were unamplified speakers.

Rekha: So you had to have a separate amplifier.

Rimarkable: Had to have a separate amplifier. This was my gear when I would go to
a gig. The vinyl was kind of starting to phase out. It was the very
beginnings of the vinyl phasing out, and with a mobile company, they
just didn't feel it as portable, like a coffin was not as portable as a cube.
We called it a cube because it was basically the racks of the, CDJs
control at the top and the drawers at the bottom and the mixer.

Rekha: So they were already at this point where they were going to phase out
vinyl for portability and ease. Were they burning their own CDs and
giving you music.

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Rimarkable: No actually, it was a big investment. So at that time was my first
introduction to DJ pools. So there was this company, which is kind of
big now, well it's kind of tried and true at this point, called Promo Only.
So Promo Only, they had a subscription.

Rekha: They had all the cheesy stuff plus all the new stuff.

Rimarkable: They had all the cheesy stuff and some remixes and edited versions.
They had different categories. You know, urban, club...

Rekha: We don't have time for that.

Rimarkable: Exactly. So they had actual albums. A client wanted to hear a certain
song, they would buy the CD. I collected a lot of music in that way. Oh,
I was selling them my setup.

Rekha: So when you went out, did you go by yourself?

Rimarkable: Eventually I did, at first I would shadow another DJ.

Rimarkable: I learned a lot of stuff. I learned how I would do things and how I
wouldn't do things. And they also hosted open houses every Tuesday
and Thursday. So it was a lot of time investment that I didn't get paid
for. And I had to compete with other DJs-

Rekha: Wow.

Rimarkable: -On our staff to be hired by the people coming in to get their wedding
person or whatever.

Rekha: So you had to audition each gig almost.

Rimarkable: Yeah I had to audition. But I learned so much about this business,
itreally prepped me for being a businesswoman as like, "Oh this is a
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 business. I'm not just getting hired randomly. I can actually have a
business at this." So I would audition and I would learn really how to
sell myself, how to present myself how to be charming, how to be witty,
how to be engaging. And it will be a room with a mock DJ set up, like
how we would look at your wedding. We had like a script and we would
go in there and I would have a part of the script. And within that I would
you know do a little light show or something, turn the fog machine on. It
was fun as hell, actually. And I would give my bio, and really present
myself and if they wanted to work with me the owner would come in
and sit down with them afterwards and they'd be like ok, we want
Maria. Well my DJ name back then was Ria G.

Rekha: All right.

Rimarkable: Ria G, oh my god. And the owner will go through the contract with
them, they'll put the deposit down or whatever, and I will come back in
and finish filling out the paperwork and just making them feel
comfortable, and you know really addressing some of their concerns
what have you. But when I would go to their gig, I would have two
amplify speakers. This is me, a woman at this time, 21 years old. I
would have 2 amplified speakers. There were about twelves, probably
about twelves.

Rekha: Twelves which refers the size of the bass, the woofer, 12 inches,
there's 12, 15, 18.

Rimarkable: Yes.

Rekha: So twelves.

Rimarkable: About twelves. I would have two speakers stands. I would have a tree
and truss. I would have maybe three to four boxes of lights. Three to
five, depending if they got the super package. Well goddamn, I have
like six or seven of those joints. I had a backup. I have the amplifier,
211
 heavy as hell then I had the backup amplifier. A whole box with all my
cords and all the jazz in it. And then the cases of the music. And if it
was excuse me a school party or something, I would also have a
subwoofer.

Rekha: Right because they needed it to bump.

Rimarkable: They needed the bass. And I was carrying and setting up all this stuff
by myself.

Rekha: And the company provided the equipment?

Rimarkable: Yeah they provided the equipment, and took a significant chunk out of
my money, actually in hindsight, they did. And if I owned my own
equipment they probably would have taken half, but I still think it was
way too much money.

Rekha: If you feel comfortable, do you want to disclose what you were getting
paid at the time.

Rimarkable: I have no problem, I was killing them back in the day, you know.

Rekha: So you what were you paid for a gig?

Rimarkable: For a gig in the 90's. Depending, on what it was, the minimum I would
ever make was 250. And if I did a wedding or something, I'd make
almost a thousand, if not more.

Rekha: And this was '90...

Rimarkable: '97, '98, '99, 2000.

Rekha: So a thousand dollars for a 21 year old. For a day's work.

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Rimarkable: Yeah, in the 90s that was, you know, and don't let me have back-to-
back weddings. I was making like 50 grand in the 90's which was a ton
of money. That was good money. But I gave up a lot. I gave up a lot of
my youth, that was my heyday. I had to be confined to knowing what I
was going to do a year from now, and I couldn't really plan. I couldn't
go on vacations, I couldn't explore, like all my friends are going to
Europe and everything. I'm making all this money, but I'm still here.

Rekha: So how long?

Rimarkable: I did that for five or six years.

Rekha: Five or six years you were a hardcore mobile DJ.

Rimarkable: I probably stopped in 2002, because I was like, I'm done. I can't do this
no more.

Rekha: But that's intense work and that's intense training.

Rimarkable: I moved away from Detroit in 2005. I moved to California, and I moved
to San Francisco, specifically. But then I started doing like, maybe,
instead of 30 gigs a year or, actually I'm being really light on myself.
Instead of like 60 gigs a year, I was doing like 15.

Rekha: You started to wean off.

Rimarkable: Yeah definitely. I was still doing it, it was still great money. I just did
other things you know.

Rekha: And the CD players. Do you remember which ones they were?

Rimarkable: They were they were the Denon.

Rekha: The Denon, 2000s?

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Rimarkable: Yeah. The Denon 2000s, with the two trays. They weren't even the
2000s, because the 2000s were dope and I loved them I wanted them
so bad. They were expensive, but they had the isolator on there where
you could remove the vocals. Yeah they had the voice reducer. And I
was already thinking about remixing. I did some early remixing. Some
early looping. I did some early producer stuff. That's where my mind
was, and that's kind of where I'm more so now. I'm also a musician, I'm
a vocalist and I have other things that I'm into, but DJing is always
going to be kind of right there.

Rekha: So then after this mobile DJ career that robs you of some precious
youth, which I'm sure you regained manifold, I hope, you moved to L.A.

Rimarkable: No, I moved to San Francisco.

Rekha: San Francisco, sorry, to California. When was your first non-mobile gig.
Was there a distinct moment, or were you DJing mobile, and did you
start... How did you...?

Rimarkable: Well what happened was my peers, hearing that I'm a DJ, thinking in
they're thinking that's dope, but they're thinking of it like a hip-hop mind
state. I am like, I actually don't use turntables, you know. And I was
kind of like nervous or slightly ashamed to even say that, because I
was looked down upon, because I was using the newer technology
instead of this organic thing. But techniques were the latest technology
at one point. You know people tend to forget that. But I would still be
hired to do certain little club gigs, or honestly I don't remember my first.

Rekha: You don't remember.

Rimarkable: I don't. It was so long ago, but I know I did a lot of stuff on the side.
People would hire me, my hip-hop friends that were MCs would hire
me for stuff. But hip-hop was not my first love, my first love in the
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 dance world is disco and house music. I actually separated around the
Yo! MTV raps generation. Right before that I kind of dipped out of the
hip-hop theme, because I fell in love with George Michael and-

Rekha: Who didn't!

Rimarkable: and Pet Shop Boys and Prince. I was just having a love affair with
Prince for my whole life.

Rekha: Same.

Rimarkable: I was obsessed with all these other types of music. And I just kind of
dipped out.

Rekha: Did you notice a thread with all this?

Rimarkable: Right. Exactly. But I was into New Wave and Prince and soul, UK soul,
and stuff like that. So I missed a lot of the hip-hop culture, so I felt
disconnected when I would get asked to do these gigs. But I was also a
club kid, so I was always collecting house music. I was always in the
clubs. I wasn't quite out of the closet, I guess I wasn't. I was still dealing
with my sexuality. But one thing I was still a part of that culture, I was
still drawn to it.

Rekha: So what kind of clubs did you go to?

Rimarkable: I was going to gay clubs where they were playing house music.

Rekha: Ok.

Rimarkable: Also, going to the underground clubs in Detroit.

Rekha: What is that like? What is an underground club? How would you define
it?
215
Rimarkable: Underground clubs like a loft. First time I saw Moody Man was at a loft.
First time I saw Theo Parrish was at the same loft. You know what I
mean. And they were the young whippersnappers, in the sense, you
know, wet behind the ears doing this stuff.

Rekha: And what did these spaces feel like?

Rimarkable: These spaces feel like a very special invitation. Like it's a happening.
It's something that is happening, and there's a certain vibration and
certain understanding and particularly in Detroit there was a certain
kind of darkness and a sense of evil, but in a sense of warmth and a
sense of otherworldliness, that was so intoxicating, very enticing to me.
Something that comes up with the music, it's very soulful. It's very
organic and loving in that sense. Then I started going out to the gay
clubs. There's a very different experience between the white gay clubs
and the Black gay clubs. I will say that.

Rekha: Please unpack.

Rimarkable: And that is the music, primarily. But one common thread that they have
is house music. Some of it in the white club is soulful, some of it is
more electronic and base-y and trance-y, I guess you could say.

Rekha: Is it different to hear the same song in a white club as it is in a Black

club.

Rimarkable: Yeah because there's different responses. I think the ultimate response
is joy. And I think that what was most important, and that may be the
common thread that keeps the gays in one community, because they
have this rebellion, they all have this liberation. They all have this this
freedom of expression commonality. However, you can be gay all day
but if you're a person of color, that soul is not removed from you. And
not to say that is removed from the white clubs. In my personal opinion,
216
 the soul is absent. You know or it's just not the same soul, kind of soul.
And so in the black gay club, I was partying with men and women.
There was no separation. And that's something that really made me
feel good. It made me feel safe. And you know that's a whole bunch of
stuff too. That's a whole other thesis.

Rekha: That's another thesis.

Rimarkable: Yeah.

Rekha: Well in some ways it is the thesis.

Rimarkable: That is true.

Rekha: Before I go there, if we could just for the next round, just keep going
with your trajectory. Where you were, and where you lived, and just sort
of the D.J milestones, and then I think I'll get into a couple other
questions around more your artistic practice. So then, you went to San
Francisco.

Rimarkable: So also at the time, I was also a vocalist. I was the lead singer of a
James Brown cover band.

Rekha: Iwant to hear that.

Rimarkable: It was a huge thing. You know I didn't do the whole imitation with the
cape and all that. I did my own interpretation, I would say. And that
band fell apart. I wasn't DJing as much. Also as a drummer in a punk
band, I had a bunch of music stuff going on and I realized I had
reached the ceiling in Detroit. Because this is also pre-internet, so you
could only do so much. And I needed to live my life as an artist. But it
also needs to be paid for. I need to be able to sustain myself. So I had
an opening to move to San Francisco, never been there in my life. I just
packed up my shit and I went across country and moved to San
217
 Francisco. I flew. I put my stuff in storage with a company that holds it
until you're ready and then they'll bring it to you.

Rekha: So you can be tentative. But then you can the trigger right. You can
say, all right, I need it.

Rimarkable: Exactly, exactly, which was really good for me. But what ended up
happening, sidebar, but it's kind of related to this, is I put all my stuff in
storage. And I came home. When I say I came home, I came back to
Detroit for like a few weeks or something. And I got a letter because my
friend took over my old apartment. I got a letter that all my stuff burned
in a fire. And that was like all my music that I had been collecting my
entire life up to that point.

Rekha: Oh my god, I felt like I just got punched in the stomach.

Rimarkable: Yes so I immediately had to let it go. So I had to. It was a metaphor for
me to let go of everything in the past and to just recreate myself. So
when I went to San Francisco, struggling to figure that out, it was
basically like my living expenses had doubled because of the-

Rekha: San Francisco!

Rimarkable: Yeah it was ridiculous, you know. That was 2005 and apartments the
were still like 2000 dollars for a one bedroom. It's really crazy. But I had
an opportunity to move across the Bay to Oakland where I joined this
collective that had this warehouse, where the rent was only 250, but
part of your rent was you had to do something with the space. They
accepted me in the collective. By the time I moved in, was ready to
move in, the collective had fallen apart and I was the only one. There
was one other person and me, and so I turned that space into an art
gallery and into a music venue.

Rekha: Wow. Amazing.

218
Rimarkable: And my friend at the time, my lover's friend, best friend at the time was
granted like a huge grant, and he brought all this music equipment,
including DJ equipment and he stored it in my warehouse. And he also
gave me access to it. So I was throwing parties, and I was also
teaching young people how to DJ in the neighborhood.

Rekha: So is this the first time you were throwing the parties?

Rimarkable: Yes.

Rekha: Okay.

Rimarkable: It was. I mean, I would throw house parties in Detroit, but it was the first
time that I was actually organized as an event producer, as a gallerist,
as a director of a program.

Rekha: And you just did it.

Rimarkable: And I studied that in school also.

Rekha: You studied art in school?

Rimarkable: I studied arts management in school. And so it was a natural

progression. But it was my first experience, so I had to really teach
myself. I had to do some flash flood courses on how to run a gallery,
how to charge artists, what's the point of sale, what's this, what's that. I
had to work with other collectives, and I was actually one of the
beginning members of what is now huge in Oakland, called The Art
Murmur. Oakland Art Murmur, which is a First Fridays thing. But my
gallery was a part of that.

Rekha: What was the name of your gallery.

219
Rimarkable: The Ghost Town Art and Music Space and that area of town was the
called Ghost Town. But there was another group of young white kids
that co-opted my name. I was going by the Ghost Town gallery and
then they coopted that name. It was this huge battle and I just
submitted and just changed it to the Ghost Town Art and Music Space.

Rekha: And how long did that run for?

Rimarkable: It ran for almost two years. And so from there, I left that because it was
just a lot of drama that happened, I'll fast forward through that. Oakland
has a growing, or was growing, house music scene, and that was
always the truest thing near and dear to my heart. And I also noticed
that the places that Black and Brown queer folks were congregating to
hear house music where in straight spaces. And that was something
that I wasn't used to not having access to. Or having access to without
an alternative, you know. And there was a lot of harassment, a lot of
weird stuff happening, so I was like I'm going to throw a queer house
music event. It was it was pretty successful. So many politics out there,
it was really draining. Eventually I left Oakland, and I moved back to
Detroit and threw some events out there, and then I moved to New
York.

Rekha: When did you move to New York?

Rimarkable: 2008. And I was very blessed to join up with folks that were already
established and had a name for themselves. Ubiquita welcomed me in.

Rekha: You were part of Ubiquita.

Rimarkable: I'm part of Ubiquita, Ubiquita brought me in. It really catapulted me into
a limelight that I will probably have to, teeth and nail, work my ass off to
get into. It just put me forth into a space where I was seen. I was also
living with people who were pretty well-known in the entertainment, you
know social scene, in New York. And so I was very blessed to have
220
 some good connections. I'm grateful for my time in Oakland because it
really helped me, come to me.

Rekha: So from Oakland, you came here.

Rimarkable: I went to back to Detroit for about a year, or six to eight months

Rekha: And then you linked to the right people. So explain Ubiquita. Because
that was off the chain.

Rimarkable: Yeah. So it was before my time, though. Actually Ubiquita was

wrapping up what it was known as when I first moved here.

Rekha: Save the Robots, then?

Rimarkable: Right after that. OK. When they moved to Deity. You remember? When
they moved to Brooklyn, to Deity.

Rekha: So just some background. Ubiquita was this amazing party. It was in
the city for a while, Lower East Side. It was on two floors. Place called
Save the Robot, which is famous for many things, probably not for this
kind of music and it's all women DJs.

Rimarkable: Yeah, it was a collective that had all women DJs, and actually, in my
opinion kind of started off the beautiful, talented, female DJ platform.
Especially as a collective, I definitely give them credit for beginning
that. It had a legacy, it had legs, you know.

Rekha: Who is in the collective?

Rimarkable: So we have DJ Reborn, DJ Selly and Mony. And then shErOck came,
and then I came afterwards. So Ubiquita ended their party, but the
collective remained. And so with Ubiquita, shErOck and I started our
own party called the Go In, which did very well for.
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Rekha: And where was that?

Rimarkable: It started off at Sweet Revenge, which was in Bedstuy which was a
really dope venue, slash bar. It was really kind of known for being kind
of tropical. It had a backyard and it had sand and it was really dope.
Then we moved to the Emerson and then we just kind of dissolved after
that. I just continued to throw events.

Rekha: Emerson is like Fort Greene, Clinton Hill.

Rimarkable: Yeah, exactly. And it wasn't as accessible. And sometimes when you
move venues, it just kind of destroys the whole vibe. Don't move
venues.

Rekha: I know it. I mean 15 years at SOBs, went down the street, lost
everyone. Went back. They all showed up again.

Rimarkable: That's crazy. You had a reunion thing, recently, right?

Rekha: I was 15 years at SOBs. I was feeling some kind of way. SOBs is, you
know, loaded, the owner, whatever. I also had some darkness within
my crew. And I think part of the move was wanting to cleanse that. And
then you know got talked into, for no good reason, oh it's just down the
street. In some ways all LPR they do things proper and a certain kind of
way. But it's a much whiter space. And so I felt like my people just
didn't feel comfortable there. Whereas SOBs, there's something very
down home about it. And from my production point of view LPR was
great. They have sandbags on the D.J table. They have multiples of
things. At SOBs like they won't ever, they won't even own a-they do
so many hip-hop shows-they don't own a cordless mic system. It's
night and day, and yeah, for five years we were struggling, we kept the
party going in name. But I went from 500 people to sometimes 60
people.
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Rimarkable: Wow.

Rekha: From the big room to the small room. And then as we were nearing 20
years, one of my main, like my best friend, someone who worked with
me for many years, she's like, and who maintained her relationship with
us, who I also got into legal battles with because they tried to mimic the
party, all kinds of drama. We had to hug it out. And she's like, "You to
just go back there." So we did the last round of months and then we did
a finale and then we did Summer Stage, which was the ultimate finale.

Rimarkable: Yeah that was huge.

Rekha: Yeah. That was great.

Rimarkable: You learned your lessons.

Rekha: Well, you know, it's interesting because I learned the lesson about
space and you organically fell into being a mobile DJ, which I think is
actually like, I wish more DJs would do that, to you know forcibly
curating a space, to being part of an established network or established
idea or a party. What do you think of when you think about space? How
do you decide, like I went to your party this weekend, Joy. Which is
such a great name for a party. I'm obsessed with party names, I keep
coming up with new parties myself. What goes into the space? What
does it mean to you? And what do you do to create the space? Just talk
to me about that a little bit.

Rimarkable: I'll speak specifically about Joy, which is an event I partner with Bklyn
Boihood to present. After the Go In, which attracted a lot of queer
community, I became frustrated with being typecast, I guess you could
say. So I separated myself.

Rekha: How were you typecast?

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Rimarkable: Like events wouldn't hire me unless it had a queer context around it.
And it's like who I have sex with has nothing to do with how I play.

Rekha: That's a soundbite right there.

Rimarkable: You know I mean, it was very frustrating. And also I wouldn't be as
successful as I know I could be if I didn't separate myself from being
pigeonholed. So I'd separate myself, which was my party, Everybody
Random, came into.

Rekha: Oh yeah. So that was a great party.

Rimarkable: It was great. I'm grateful for it.

Rekha: It was at Bed and Vyne?

Rimarkable: No, Bed Vyne Brew.

Rekha: I think I was at the first couple ones, beginning, when it started.

Rimarkable: Yeah it was special. And I ended that party. I ended it at that venue to
take some space because I was becoming, you know, people will put
you in boxes, and I do my best to separate.

Anyway. The Orlando shootings happened. And it happened around

around Pride season. During Pride month. I reached out to Ryan. I was
at the Allied Media Conference with Ryan who is the founder of Bklyn
Boihood, and we've been dear friends for years. And I was like, "Yo we
need to throw a party for our people for Pride. We just got to heal, we
need some love, we got to hug it out. We need to be around each
other, you know." And I was like, quite frankly everybody doesn't go to
the city. Everybody doesn't want to go to the city for Pride. And so we
need to throw one. I was like, "I want to do this party and I want to call
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 it Joy." And it's going to be a cute day party, a little tea party because
people are missing that, and this younger generation doesn't know
about tea parties.

Rekha: A very, very strong tradition in the queer community, especially Pride.
So that's interesting. So in terms of the demographic, you said it before
where you had your space in Oakland, and then the younger people
here and I know-

Rimarkable: Oh yes so we're talking about space. And my ideas around space. So I
wanted to create a safe space for queer and trans people of color to
come together, for us to be around each other. We feel safe. We're not
subconsciously antagonized by the threat of whiteness. Sometimes it is
very threatening especially when you're already triggered or you're
already feeling hurt or you're already feeling pain. And I wanted to
create a place where people felt safe to be themselves and to celebrate
our own traditions. We're playing Spades and we're doing the Electric
Slide, playing our music, you know!

Rekha: It definitely had a welcoming vibe, it was not pretentious. I mean, you
know queer spaces-.

Rimarkable: It's not a scene.

Rekha: Queer spaces can be so scene-y.

Rimarkable: It can be so scene-y and that's the other thing. Out of the popularity for
a lot of alluring events of color, who I'm not going to put on blast, but
by trying to do something cool, they've created spaces of scenery,
where people feel alienated. And when you have that separatism and
you have alienation, that becomes elitist, it becomes classist. You
know, the separatism.

Rekha: So what is it about the physicality of this. How did you find this space?
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Rimarkable: Well originally the space was at Bed Vyne Cocktail, which is a sister
bar of Bed Vyne. And I liked it because it was great for a day party, it
had an outdoor space. We brought in a caterer, and so we had good
barbecue. I actually had a very good person that did the food, it was
like gourmet barbecue, soul food. The bar was beautiful, and the
people came and I think that particular one was free. And it was
overwhelming. We didn't know how successful it would become. That
let us know that it was needed. And the owners even were like, "Yo,
can you keep doing this." And so we were like, "We need to do this. We
to do it." And so we kept doing it, and we kept figuring out ways to
make it better and better and better, and that meant better food, that
meant, well we're outgrowing this space. People feel claustrophobic. Is
it accessible to Elders? Because this is also a multigenerational event.
And we have a section that is just for the OGs, we call them, everyone.
Basically you're 35 and up.

Rekha: That would be my section right.

Rimarkable: Right, the OG's can sit here. The OG's have earned their place to sit
down. Everybody else got to stand up and dance, you know. It's also
420 friendly. Always. We're also trying to only work with people of color,
or at least queer folks. So we all grew Cocktail in two seconds. It was
uncomfortable and it didn't feel safe. It didn't physically feel safe. So
that's also very important to me. There needs to be exits, there needs
accessibility to people that are disabled. There needs to be accessibility
to the damn bathroom. Yeah. And if some shit goes down, someone
needs to be able to run out, there needs exits, you know. So all that
stuff is very important to me. No pretentiousness. We actually just had
an incident with someone, who unbeknownst to me, behind the scenes,
was connected to some drama where they harm someone, also in our
community and it was their birthday and I was going to promote them
like, "Hey our special love is like having a birthday." And we made a
special flyer for them, and I got word from my business partners like,
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 we actually can't promote this person because they've harmed a couple
of people in our community. They're still welcome to be there, but
they've harmed people, and we can't publicly put our name behind. And
I had to adhere to that, because that is very important. That's about the
safety of others.

Rekha: Sure.

Rimarkable: So those are the kinds of things I consider.

Rekha: So what is the space called now?

Rimarkable: The space now is called Cafe Erzulie, which we've outgrown. Like you
came during a very busy, busy-

Rekha: In my experience of clubs, you know when the bus is about to arrive,
that imaginary bus where you look down at your tables, and then you
look up, and then all of a sudden there's all these people. I was there
right before the bus arrived.

Rimarkable: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Rekha: Spidey sense, you know, from throwing parties you know what's up. So
you've outgrown that space.

Rimarkable: Outgrown that space because even with the busy weekend, we were
still busy, you know. We need to find a bigger space.

Rekha: My god, I have so many other questions now. Who are your business
partners? Who is this in conjunction with?

Rimarkable: My only business partner in this particular space or this particular event
is Bklyn Boihood.

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Rekha: Ok so Bklyn Boihood, and they throw other parties, of course.

Rimarkable: They throw other events. They have programming there. They really
advocate for the-

Rekha: And they've done programming at Brooklyn Museum, all kinds of

places.

Rimarkable: Yeah, we just did something big at Brooklyn Museum. Joy. Joy was
there, and it was amazing.

Rekha: So now in terms of the space, you've outgrown the space. First
question is how do you control the audience? The audience there was
intergenerational. Lots of different range of different kinds of queer
folks, but very POC. Bklyn Boihood has a built-in audience. You also
have your own following. How do you control who is there, and how
does.. What if a bunch of white queers start showing up? How does
that work?

Rimarkable: We have not had that I think because both of us have, you know, I have
my platform, I definitely have my white audience. There are a few white
allies that come. But I think because there's such a strong presence
that is known, they just haven't shown up. But when we arrive, like the
business is still open to a certain time, and we've had to ask people to
leave. Like, these are the people that are coming. This is a private
gathering. It's not, no you're welcome to stay. It's like, you got to go.

Rekha: And the owners are okay with that?

Rimarkable: They're fine. We've made that very clear from the beginning, like, no,
no, no. It needs to be a safe space.

Rekha: If Output Roof in Williamsburg said, "Oh my God, you have so many
people. We have this dope outdoors. Would you do it there.
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Rimarkable: I've seen it become a successful thing with other events to have a POC
following. And I think if we could come to terms with the way that they
market it, it's a possibility.

Rekha: You would entertain it.

Rimarkable: But I also know that we're very adamant as a collective, like Joy being
the collective, or the business. We have very strong policies, and we
don't care how big your shit is. We had a battle with Brooklyn Museum
about certain things.

Rekha: What were the battles?

Rimarkable: About visibility, about the way that they were being marketed. For
instance they kept saying, like Bklyn Boihood presents Joy. And we
were like ok, no. Joy is not Bklyn Boihood. Joy is Bklyn Boihood and
Rimarkable. That's very important. And that's very important because
people need to see what we're doing. The power behind what we're
doing. And how we name is very important. But they kept making that
mistake, and it was a mess for a second.

Rekha: I had a nickel.

Rimarkable: You know I mean. And it was a queer person of color that kept making
the mistake and it was just like, yo! We had to clown on them on the
mic a little bit, kind of like, let's be very clear about certain things, like
don't take our power away from us.

Rekha: No absolutely.

Rimarkable: And don't try to market or piggyback, with your marketing off the
strength of the name. You think it's larger, you know what I mean.

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 Brooklyn Boihood does have a larger name in the queer community,
than I do.

Rekha: But also, once you say Bklyn Boihood, B-0-1 hood, it's a very specific
idea and has very specific connotations.

Rimarkable: Exactly.

Rekha: So then it's like, is it really honoring what Joy is about. Is it honoring the
depth of the context? I mean my favorite gig. People are like, what's
your favorite gig? The Brooklyn Museum, hands down. Hasidic people,
Caribbean people, bougie white people, mixed race people. You just
get everybody.

Rimarkable: Yeah absolutely. It was phenomenonal.

Rekha: First Saturdays are amazing. I've done the rotunda, I've done the
outside, I've done it a few times. It's quite phenomenal, so to get that
right is very important.

Rimarkable: I'm like, if you don't correct this, the world is going to have a different
idea about what our event is. We can't risk your, the strength of your
platform. Having the strength of your platform and speaking to the rest
of the world, with, we can't risk our context. We can't risk our platform
going with yours, and you having it wrong. Basically.

Rekha: So, this is a sticky place in the sense of, you know, it's the Brooklyn
Museum or whatever that means. It's a good gig, it's a lot of visibility of
thousands of people, and you're sticking your ground. And you have to
make this negotiation. And there's always a risk when you make a
negotiation.

Rimarkable: Absolutely.

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Rekha: The question of, like, are they going to bring you back.

Rimarkable: We're not fighting for no reason. That's that's our narrative, we're not
fighting for no reason. We show up, and our people are going to show
up, and we're going to smash. I obliterated Brooklyn Museum. I know I
did. I'm very proud of that. I tore them a new asshole, like, I feel that
way. You know like we went off in there and it was packed and it was a
sea of brown and black queer folks. And it was dope. Amongst all these
bougies and the Hasids and this and that.

Rekha: The mix that is Brooklyn.

Rimarkable: Yeah, you know, it gave us a platform and it gave us access to

something we may not have had access to. But the exchange was like,
we made y'all look good. Make us look good. You know what I mean?
That was just the argument. And that's our approach with that
everything that we do.

Rekha: Does that get tiring? Is it a battle or is it just part of the work?

Rimarkable: It's just part of the work. I'm definitely exhausted that it has to be so
much work but I'm willing to do it because it's so important. I mean, Joy
was started as a political, you know not for nothing, like as a form of
community service, but as a political narrative. This has happened to
us. We're not going to crumble, we have each other. Let's join up.

Rekha: So we've spoken a lot about black and white. Where do other folks of
color, do work in the space, or does that show up for you in any way?

Rimarkable: In terms of my event, Joy?

Rekha: Just like in different spaces? Like what if at Joy you had a a wave of
other folks that were not necessarily Caucasian. But I'm also curious
about-
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Rimarkable: Brown. Brown folks?

Rekha: Yeah.

Rimarkable: There's plenty of brown folks that come to Joy and they're nurtured,
they're loved as well. They're held, there's a space for them. I think that
I just speak more, predominantly about blackness. Black queerness.
Because a lot of times it does get categorized, white queerness or
Black queerness. And I'm grateful to my sweethearts Papi Juice. Who
have made space for Brown queerness or just queerness of color. And
I think that they're doing an amazing job with that. And I love how they
work, and I've worked with them. And I think that just by default Joy has
become more predominantly Black, but it is known that-

Rekha: I'm just talking at large..

Rimarkable: Of course, of course. You know, people ask that sometimes.

Rekha: Yeah I'm just curious. We've set up these binaries, but at the same time
there's so many multiples that exist in spaces and I'm just curious
about those multiples and those overlaps.

Rimarkable: You know our platform is we provide this space for queer and trans
people of color. Hands down, it's not for white folks.

Rekha: What else are you doing at this moment? You do Joy, and you do other
gigs. What other projects are you working on currently?

Rimarkable: Something else that took a lot of my summer was the release of my
music. I'm an artist on a Dirt Tech Rech record label which is
spearheaded and ran by Waajeed who is a well-known electronic music
producer. And I say electronic music because his beginnings were in
hip-hop. He was working very deeply with J Dilla, and he's actually the
one that came up with the name Slum Village.
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Rekha: Oh wow.

Rimarkable: And yeah they were brothers, partners in crime. And he also produced
and founded Platinum Pied Pipers, and he's well known for his own
work as Waajeed.

Rekha: And thats your first commercial release?

Rimarkable: It's not, actually. I did some other stuff with some other people, but they
stole my money basically. And I don't promote it. But it wasn't my first.
But it felt like it was the most official. You know there was a whole
marketing thing and there was backing and support and he's
phenomenal and we work very well together. So I'm working on
finishing up an album. Or what may be an E.P. You never know. And
dropping some stuff on some of his platforms as a vocalist, and
hopefully touring very soon.

Rekha: Cool. So I'm going to just ask you a couple of nitty gritties What else
are you working on, my question is more about what's your daily,
monthly art practice? Working on this vocal is one project. I want to go
into like the day-to-day. It doesn't have to be project with a capital P,
like, this is out, we need to promote this. I'm just talking about the day-
to-day. I mean, just looking at your IG, you have so many different
kinds of gigs, they're so interesting to me, and I'm sort of trying to get
into the mindset of what it is to DJ professionally on a daily basis. What
does that mean. How do they come about? And then we'll get into like
your technique and your art practice. But just like, even if you have to
look over the last two weeks or three weeks, or whatever time frame
you want to think about.

Rimarkable Well interestingly enough, I just did this gig this past weekend at Yale.
Which was super dope. It was a big concert with the DJ. I was the DJ. It
was the first time they've ever done a welcome party like that for their
233
 new students, or for the campus in general. The shit was dope. They
had like gourmet food for these kids, for free. They had a bar for the 21
and olders.

Rekha: That's slave money, that's just slave money.

Rimarkable: No, it absolutely is, you know. And they had Juan de Marcos who is the
founder of Buena Vista Social Club, his band. And they had Baba Israel
who was a beatbox champion, I believe, and a community activist. He's
a cool cat, and he did a performance with Grace, and there was
another like big band kind of thing. It was dope.

Rekha: How many people, like thousands?

Rimarkable: I would say a good two thousand people were there.

Rekha: And you spun. And so you were doing the dance portion after the live
stuff.

Rimarkable: Yeah I played to warm up the place, and I played to close it out.

Rekha: How long was your set?

Rimarkable: I played probably altogether two hours, which I thought was pretty
good, considering all that stuff was going.

Rekha: Before, during then and then, after.

Rimarkable: But during, was like five minutes before, it was like 15, 20. I didn't really
even play between acts they kind of blended together, except for one of
them, but whatever.

Anyway what I enjoyed about the event was that I got to see some of
the ways that this really Ivy League place that has all this Ivy League
234
 context behind it. How they were just getting a resurgence, or an eye-
opening or a wokeness about them. You know I met several deans of
color from several departments, and a lot of cool and hip people and I
got to see a lot of kids of color. A lot of students of color.

Rekha: What did you play?

Rimarkable: Ok here's the kicker and I'm like, "Whoa, what a hodgepodge of
entertainment this evening. What am I going to play?" And because I
know how to read a crowd, and because I have this overstanding of
production, I knew, I was like, "Now these kids, they've been drinking,
they've been eating. Even if they didn't go to this bar, they snuck bottles
and some kind of shit popping off. There are new in college, whatever.
They want to party and just be reckless, you know. So I gave them the
full Top 40, and I gave them all that, I gave them that shit, you know. I
threw a little bit of this in there and I put a little bit out, and I let them
explore. But I primarily gave them the night of their life. You know what
I mean?

Rekha: Right.

Rimarkable: You know one of those like bridge and tunnel bar joints, you know what
I mean.

Rekha: Because you could do that.

Rimarkable: Because I could do that, and I do do that, and I do that regularly. That's
a lot of the money that pays for my rent sometimes.

Rekha: So unpack it more. So you know you got this Yale gig, which is great.
You do Joy on Sundays, and then your bread and butter is...?

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Rimarkable: My bread and butter is honestly corporate gigs, like Yale, like these big
corporations or these big nonprofits or these weddings or these big
venues. You know the ones that pay me big checks.

Rekha: And what's your structure.

Rimarkable: And I don't always advertise those.

Rekha: Yeah, yeah, no, of course! Because part of it is to not advertise, right?
Because you're like-

Rimarkable: I'm too cool for school. I can't put, "Come find me at come find me at
Dropbox tonight." No I can't do that. No, but I'm going to cash
Dropbox's check. But that's my bread and butter.

Rekha: So what's your structure like. Do you take the bookings or is there
somebody intermediary?

Rimarkable: Ok, so I do everything myself you know. And I'm circling back to the
beginnings. I'm grateful that I learned how to do this as a business. So
that has stuck. That's an advantage I have over a lot of other DJs that
are trying to do this as a career. I don't need a manager. I need one,
because I'm exhausted trying to do everything myself. But I don't need
a manager that is going to do the talking for me. I do everything myself.
I'm very prompt. I get a lot of respect. I've earned my respect, and
which is why I repeat clients and why they tell their friends about me,
because I'm very good to work with. I'm very adamant about being anti-
cliche you know. Yeah. Like, "Whew, oh god, thank you for sending
your stuff, I don't know. You're like the first DJ that's ever done that,
blah blah blah blah blah, to send your stuff in so timely." Like I hear
those kind of things all the time, and I'm like, "Yo, because this is my
business!"

Rekha: Stuff like bio and headshots.

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Rimarkable: Yeah, like my package, or whatever. Or my W9 or damn invoice.

Rekha: I'm just going to wear it on my forehead because I feel like I get five e
mails a day asking me for my W9.

Rimarkable: You know, that's what I'm saying, it's insane.

Rekha: Do you think that not having your manager, which is, one function of a
manager is to take the call, negotiate the money, and make sure the
paperwork's right. Do you think that affects, influences the business
end? Do you think if there's someone else...?

Rimarkable: Absolutely. You know in terms of like the reach that I'm really aiming
for. Like I want to play in Europe. I want to make 5000 euros a gig. I
want to play in these big ass venues with the people jumping up and
down and acting crazy, because that's just more access to a global
reach, which is my ultimate, ultimate goal. It does look better if I have a
booking agent, if I have a manager, it looks better.

Rekha: Yeah, but did they take a cut too.

Rimarkable: Yeah. But they take a cut, and also you don't know what these people
are saying to them on the phone. I've had heard horror stories. And I'm
like, I need to have control over what is going on. So I'd rather get an
assistant than get a manager.

Rekha: 100 percent agree with you. I've been through it all.

Rimarkable: Yeah, I'm not dealing with that stuff. It would help to have a booking
agent, which I'm shopping for now, but it tends to be where they have
to shop for you.

Rekha: You're running your whole operation. You're pretty booked, you get
enough corporate stuff hopefully to sustain yourself-
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Rimarkable: Yeah, to sustain me and I'm making money. And also feel like I'm in a
place where I have to demand more money from people that book me
locally. I say no to a lot of stuff. Don't come at me with seventy-five
dollars an hour gigs. Somebody asked me that the other day, I was like,
"I'm sorry baby. This is not for me. Let me know if I can connect you
with some people that might be."

Rekha: I have a weird backlash. I think the challenge of being boxed is real. I'm
going to say men don't get boxed in the same way.

Rimarkable: You know, we didn't really talk about that. I want to pedal backwards
just a little bit.

Rekha: Let's talk about it now.

Rimarkable: Yeah I want pedal back because I'm meant to talk about this when I
was first starting off as a DJ. There were definitely not many women
DJs. It was very few and far between. There was definitely not a lot of
women DJs of color. So I would show up at these very corporate, very
white, very masculine or hetero normative spaces, and they would look
at me and be like, "What are you about to play? Are you going to play
anything good tonight? Do you need help with that?"

Rekha: Of course.

Rimarkable: "Do you know how to work that?"

Rekha: "When's your boyfriend coming? When's the DJ coming?"

Rimarkable: Yeah. Are you the DJ, or is there another...? Are you just by yourself
tonight?" I would get that. I had to really brush that off, and I had to rise
above that. For some reason it never hurt me. Except when I could feel

238
 a tinge of racism in it, you know. But it was always like, "I'll show you,"
you know.

Rekha: And you did.

Rimarkable: I have always been a good ass DJ. I know I have.

Rekha: So what's your method? Let's not talk about method. What do you
consider your art practice, when it comes to DJing? What is it that you
do?

Rimarkable: I would consider it alchemy, you know, and I teach. I have a class that I
teach that has a very particular curriculum, and I call my class the
alchemy of DJing. I call it alchemy because I'm taking a room full of
people that may or may not know each other, but have all kinds of
different backgrounds, even if it's a cohesive thing like we're all black in
this room. Everybody is not the same. Everyone has a different
experience. Some people are shy. Some people are extroverted, some
people, whatever. And I'm using music to transform this room. I don't
know what your day consisted of. I don't know what you brought in to
this event. Everybody is bringing in something different. And my job is
to create a transformation.

Rekha: Let's go deep and let's get nitty gritty. The reason why I'm asking you,
and I keep going nitty gritty, is because part of my aim for this project is
to review the existing literature and recording or history of DJ practice
and to see what's missing in there, and to have a critique of it, because
I feel that it defines things in a limited way, in a very particular point of
view. And I think there's so much more, as a DJ myself, I can agree
with every single thing you say almost. The space, the journey,
people's backgrounds. Like my audiences, they may be all South
Asian. I don't know where they grew up. I don't know how much money
they have. I don't know what they know. I can't even make assumptions
on a baseline of what music they grew up with. Maybe they lived in
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 South Queens and they never heard anything but X, or they grew up in
France. So it's finding the commonality. I think my interest in doing this
is to sort of write a different narrative, or to add to the narrative, how
much intention goes into the work.

Rimarkable: Right. Ok, I got you. How do I prepare for that, how do I...?

Rekha: How do you prepare. Well you said that you started programming the
mixtapes for the sounds and making sure they lined up. It was almost
unconscious how you were doing that. And like reading the crowd is
really important. So a lot of times people say DJing is scratching. So I
say scratching interrupts the flow, and when people dance, they don't
like the scratch. So I'm just saying, get nitty gritty.

Rimarkable: How do I make all these people come together? I pay attention to
people outside of these spaces. I do a lot of reading. I keep up on my
news as much as possible.

Rekha: What does news have to do with DJing.

Rimarkable: News is like the way that people may be affected in the world. Like right
now this is going on in the world. People subconsciously or consciously
may be feeling this. Now have an insight on how they may be feeling.
So I may play a song, or a few songs, that is touching specifically on
that theme, or I'll prepare myself for that.

Rekha: So what are you using, you're using Serato?

Rimarkable: I'm using Serato a lot of terms. Also use CDJ 2000s, with a flash drive,
which I really enjoy, but I'm finding that-I actually love that-but I'm
finding that I enjoy that only when I'm doing genre-specific events.
Because I tried to do it at an evet, and I was like, I'm gonna lose my
mind. I don't know how to find my song, I don't know how to do shit.

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Rekha: I lose things too fast and the thought of me constantly losing flash
drives is keeping me away. I'm a holdout. I'm going to get there,
because at some point everyone is going to use flash drives.

Rimarkable: But once you're in it is really dope. But I'm also like, it's making certain
people lazy. Like the DJ from the other night, she was after me
and.. .Yeah, I work with my own sound team as well you do. Yeah.

Rekha: So tell me about that. Who is your sound team?

Rimarkable: I have a friend whose name is Greg C.

Rekha: Was he a booking for one of the venues?

Rimarkable: No, no, no, no. He's an old school house head, that's like a tech nerd.

Rekha: That's the guy you want for your sound.

Rimarkable: He is a nerd like me. He has giant cabinets all the way to like a small
portable.

Rekha: So he's your person.

Rimarkable: He's my guy, you know what I mean. But I have worked with other
people in terms of like, I rather y'all just go get the equipment than me
have Greg just like drudge all his shit.

Rekha: Right, or you have your rider, like, I need it like this.

Rimarkable: Yeah, absolutely. I have tech rider, here is my stuff, go get it, whatever
they use, they use. I haven't really had any trouble, thank god.

Rekha: I like Soundhouse, right now.

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Rimarkable: Ok. I'll remember them.

Rekha: Prices are standard. I've been with them for a while, so I get the little in-
house discount. They pick up, drop off. Everything is a charge.

But I want your daily practice, like get technical.

Rimarkable: Like I wake up in the morning, I eat, type of thing.

Rekha: Like what do you do to prepare for a gig? Do you have a system?

Rimarkable: So I make crates from myself. Serato is great for that. So I make crates
in my iTunes and they transfers to Serato. So I know I definitely want to
play this song. I definitely want to bring this energy to this gig. Here are
some things that I may play. I have started doing programming, but I'm
21 years in the game. I can't get caught up in that shit because shit
changes. Like old girl was kind of like, it's not in the same order. I've
started programming because sometimes it'll keep me kind off focused.
But I always deviate. But that's something that's a new practice for me.

Rekha: Have a plan but do not be afraid to go off plan.

Rekha: Well you know it's so funny, the other day I saw a tweet from one of the
guys that used to DJ with Freedom, I can't remember which one. He's
like, "Every once in a while, delete all your crates and start fresh." Now
the thought of that for most DJs is horrifying.

Rimarkable: It's horrifying. But I'm into that as well.

Rekha: I went to Serato, went to OP, and he's like-and my shit's a hot mess.
He's like, "You need to get rid of music." He's like, "No, you have to
start getting rid of it. There's things you're never gonna play."

Rimarkable: I need to sit and do that as well.

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Rekha: I do a lot of Bollywood. There's so much fucking Bollywood music. I
panic buy.

Rimarkable: Oh I need some actually up some actually.

Rekha: I will hook you up. I'll be happy to do that.

I panic. I always feel like I'm not on to the latest, I don't watch the
movies because they're fucking boring as shit. So I panic buy a bunch
of stuff,and sometimes the songs never pop and nobody really cares.
And I have a lot of that stuff, that just doesn't matter. That needs to go.

Rimarkable: Thank you for reminding me, I need to spend some time sitting with my
hard drive and getting rid of a lot of shit. Like I've never played that and
I never will because it's loading down my hard drive. And I can put
them on a separate hard drive if I'm so afraid of losing them.

Rekha: You don't have to like give it up, but it just doesn't have to be in your
regular crates.

Rimarkable: I need to take it out. It's distracting.

Rekha: I think as I get older I feel it. "Did I play that? Oooh."

So what happened with Ayesha, with Ayes Cold?

Rimarkable: She was projecting a lot of her nervousness on me. Let me just tell you,
the girl who played before me, she was killing it. She had the energy
like a freaking closing set energy, but I'm not mad though because
when I did Boiler Room, I'm like, this is a Boiler Room. I'm giving it all I
got and I had opening set-

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Rekha: Your Boiler Room is set so fire. I've seen it so many times, and I'm so
mad that we couldn't do basic Bhangra boiler room. I was like, "Yo this
party is iconic, it's ending. Can we do it?" They just didn't have their
shit together like accommodate it. I'm just like, "Ugh!"

Rimarkable: Anyway so I wasn't mad.

Rekha: But that's immaturity. The opening set is-

Rimarkable: Absolutely, it's super immature. Boiler Room is a very different thing
than a regular-ass party we were at. But my point in mentioning that
was that when I went to transition, I was using the NSX 9000 mixer
which has Serato in it. And I was transitioning, had my flash drive which
had the my Serato wave, or whatever. I'm getting ready. She had our
controller on top of the mixers, or whatever, the setup. I was like
moving her stuff down while she was playing so I could start loading up.
My shit wasn't connecting, and I was like, "Play another song, play
another song." And then I was like, "Damn it's still not working, play
another song." Do you know this girl had been playing a mix the whole
time?

Rekha: Shut the fuck up.

Rimarkable: I didn't know people actually did that in real life.

Rekha: She basically faked the whole thing.

Rimarkable: She was playing a freaking mix because I kept hearing how everybody
was like, "I'm surprised she didn't sing." She's known as a singer. She
was so on a million.

Rekha: And it wasn't it wasn't playing to the room?

Rimarkable: The room loved it.

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Rekha: I love that room because they just want to dance. If you had a good
country set, they'd do it.

Rimarkable: They just want to freaking dance.

Rekha: That's definitely a fun place to play.

Rimarkable: But anyway, I hated that she made a point to be like, "I gave up on
Serato a long time ago." I was like, "That was dumb. Why did you do
that?" It's an industry standard thing. Why would you give up on
something like that. I'm not giving up on Serato. I may enjoy using
USBs more when I'm doing house music and disco parties, but I'm not
giving up on Serato. It's important.

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Interview Transcript:

DJ Shilpa/Scarlett88

246
 (Edited) Interview with DJ Shilpa/Scarlett88

Rekha: We're rolling. So this is an interview for Rekha Malhotra as masters

thesis research for M.I.T. Comparative Media Studies. With a Shilpa
Sabharwala. So what is your DJ name?

Shilpa: My DJ name is DJ Shilpa. Very creative. It's my first name.

Rekha: That's your only DJ name.

Shilpa: No, I actually have a alter ego, it's called DJ. Scarlett.

Rekha: Ok. What's the difference?

Shilpa: DJ Shilpa caters more to the South Asian scene wedding scene, to be
specific. And then Scarlett is more the club scene in New York.

Rekha: Okay so where did you grow up?

Shilpa: I was born in New Delhi, India and then we migrated to the United
States in the late 80's, early 90's. And I grew up in Somerset, New
Jersey which is like Central Jersey.

Rekha: And what kind of music did you listen to growing up?

Shilpa: I would say in India obviously like the Bollywood tunes that were super
famous in the 80's and early 90's. As far as like the American stuff was
concerned while I was in India, the most we would get is like Michael
Jackson, and stuff like that. Stuff that was like super popular abroad.
You know not very much like 80's music. Oh and like Madonna. In India
itself, Michael Jackson and Madonna were really big at the time when I
was growing up, and then obviously like a lot of Indian music that I
listened to.

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 But then when we migrated here, I became more aware of like the hip-
hop culture and obviously going to school here and being friends with
different people. I started listening to more and more Top 40 stuff that
was out here. Also the Indian stuff that was being played at home.

Rekha: When did you actually start DJing?

Shilpa: So in '92, my dad decided to start a mobile DJ business because he felt

that the Indian culture in Central Jersey could benefit from having
someone that knew how to play Indian music at private parties. It
started off more of like a hobby, where you know how families would
have like birthday parties or small functions, and you know my dad
would take his two speakers and he invested in two turntables and he
would you know start playing music at these functions. I was still a little
girl at the time but obviously like that sort of seeped into me and I would
say '96 or '97 is when I really was like, "Oh I want to do this at a gig
with you."

Rekha: How did he learn?

Shilpa: Himself. He just self-taught. He just felt there was a need for it in our
community because nobody in our community was doing it. Yeah, he
was self-taught. He went to Sam Ash and brought himself some
speakers, some turntables, a tape player because most Indian music
was only available on cassette. At the time, not records and a mixer
and he just started.

Rekha: And he started doing parties for people.

Shilpa: Yep started doing parties for people. Started off with birthday parties,
small weddings, and then obviously like Diwali functions, that was a big
hit. He used to do a Diwali function every year for people in Central
Jersey, and he used to have a lot of people come out. Anywhere from
between 250 to like 350 people would come out at this party
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Rekha: Awesome. Do you have any formal musical training?

Shilpa: I played the flute. I would say I started in sixth grade. I'm sorry. Seventh
grade is when you pick up an instrument in school. So I chose the flute,
and I pretty much played the flute for from 7th grade to high school, till
senior year. And so obviously with that I learned how to read music,
write music. So that would be my formal training. And then by the time
senior year in high school came along, I was drum major for the band.

Rekha: So you were a drummer too.

Shilpa: Yeah.

Rekha: Awesome. So the first time you saw a DJ live would be...?

Shilpa: Like the first time I ever DJed?

Rekha: That you saw somebody DJ.

Shilpa: Oh live. Would be my dad, obviously, at an event. And that was pretty
much all of '92 to like '96, '97. Yeah. My dad is the first person I saw.

Rekha: Yeah, I remember your dad.

Shilpa: Yeah.

Rekha: So the next section is more about your actual DJ practice. What was
your first gig, do you remember?

Shilpa: Yeah I do, vaguely, but I do remember. My dad said to me that, "Hey I
have a gig today, and instead of you just being my helper," which he
said I was great at and I would get ten dollars for every party, to help
him carry his stuff and make sure his music was in order.

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 So my dad was doing this on the side, but also had a full time job. So if
he had a gig on Friday night or Saturday night, my job was to make
sure all the cassettes were rewound to cue, so that if he did have to
play a song off the cassette, when he hit play, it started at where he
wanted it to start at. That is such a cool story to me. I don't even know if
DJs right now could fathom that. Because when you hit play on the
cassette player, it would go "vmmm", and then go to the actual song.

But anyway, yeah. So my first gig was he pretty much was like,
"Instead of helping me today, why don't you, you know, you've been
expressing your interest to play. So why don't we get you to play." And
that's what it was. I can't remember the year. It's got to be in the mid
90's, maybe late 90's like '96 or '97. But yeah that was my first gig ever.
It was like a private pre-wedding gig.

Rekha: And you still got ten dollars?

Shilpa: No I got one hundred and one dollars for doing a good job.

Rekha: That's great. My first gig I got fifty one dollars. So who was there?
Where was it exactly?

Shilpa: It was somewhere in Jersey. It was like a VFW hall that this client-

Rekha: Veteran of Foreign Wars.

Shilpa: Yeah. that this client had rented obviously for themselves and the
family. My dad and I showed up. I helped him hook the system up, and
then we kind of played according to what the client wanted. And my
dad kind of let me take it from there.

Rekha: And so you were using what, what was the hardware setup?

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Shilpa: A mixer, 2 turntables, because I think I specifically remember Shaggy
was big at the time, and I was like to my dad, "Trust me the people that
are in there like teens or early 20's are gonna dig this, dad." And he
was like, "No you just stick to the Indian music," and I'm like, "No, no.
Like we'll do that too, but we're gonna stick this in there because
they're gonna love it." And so I did the Indian music on the cassettes,
and whatever Indian music, I think I had Apache Indian on record.

Rekha: You guys weren't using CDs at this point?

Shilpa: No not at this point. Not the first gig. We couldn't, at this point my dad
hadn't invested in CDJ's because with the amount of money he was
making doing it, he couldn't afford it at this point. We were we were
straight on cassette at this point. So I would do the Indian music on
cassette and then every now and then mix in Shaggy on the turntables,
or anything popular that I thought the kids would respond to. And that's
how it went.

Rekha: After that first gig, did you just keep doing them or what happened?

Shilpa: Yes. So, obviously it's like getting a taste of what you can do. And I felt
so good because, you know. And that's the crazy part. I wasn't even
nervous. It was like I was ready, and I just wanted my dad to give me a
chance. So I wasn't nervous. I wasn't scared. I just wanted him to have
enough faith in me to let me do it. And I did it and I rocked out and I
wasn't like shy on the mic or anything like that. And he was like, "Wow,
you did an amazing job," So he's like, "So why don't you just start
coming with me to all the gigs that you want to, as long as it doesn't
affect school." And I was like, "Yo I'm totally down for that. I definitely
want to do that." And that's kind of how it started and I just kept going.

I think with his business it was like, we would do a gig and it was word
of mouth, you know. And if we did a good job we would get another

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 lead out of it. And that's how it was for the next couple of years. Like I
would say, until '99, 2000.

Rekha: Right. When was Scarlett 88's first gig?

Shilpa: That wasn't until like 2010 or 2011. Like almost ten or eleven years
later.

Rekha: Tell me about that gig. How did that happen? Where was it?

Shilpa: I felt there was a need to divide the brands. Everything related to Shilpa
that I had worked so hard on over the years was wedding related and
Bollywood related. My website, all my mixes, my EPK, my media kits,
everything had South Asian something in it. So I couldn't go to New
York City clubs and be like, "Hey check this out, I'm DJ Shilpa. Check
out all my marketing material," because if they checked it out they
would be like, "Oh well I don't really want a South Asian DJ who
specializes in Indian music at my club."

So it became essential to divide the brand, and I think the reason why I
did that too is because although I love doing weddings, I really do,
there's only so creative I can get, because sometimes I get a playlist
from the bride and groom, and they tell me like, "Oh I specifically want
these songs for the dance floor," or whatever, and I can't really express
my creativity with a 50 song playlist. So I was like, you know what, why
don't I try to separate the two brands and start Scarlett. So somewhere
in 2010 or 2011, I decided to do that, and I got my first club gig. I don't
know man, I've done so many, I can't remember what my first one was
like.

Rekha: How did you get it?

Shilpa: Again. Networking. Word of mouth. You know I think I just started
hitting up DJs in the city and was like, "Yo, I'm starting a new brand and
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 I want to be able to DJ in the city as Scarlett." Oh, I know! I would say
my first few gigs were at dive bars in the city, like Solas in the Lower
East Side.

Rekha: I remember you, I wanted to see if you were DJing anymore, and you
were like, "I'm doing solo." I think I might have stopped by. I don't know,
maybe I thought about it.

Shilpa: So Solas was definitely one of the first few gigs. 49 Grove. That was
one spot. Yeah. To name a couple.

Rekha: So in terms of your transition. So then you have these two different
identities. One is sort of a commercial, wedding type audience. The
other one is clubs. And you started off, your first gig was turntables and
a tape deck. And then what do you use today?

Shilpa: So I'm very versatile today. I obviously grew up on turntables, so I'm

comfortable with turntables. I eventually moved to CDJs because when
I was doing the bulk of the gigs that I was doing, Indian music started
becoming available on CDs. One of the first CD players we bought was
a Denon.

Rekha: You remember the model? Was it the 2000?

Shilpa: The 2000 and the we got the 2500.

Rekha: Ah that was so baller to get the 2500.

Shilpa: Yeah, with the remote control thing in the jog wheel.

Rekha: Oh yeah the jog wheel. Denon 2000, industry standard for a long time.

Shilpa: Yeah. So it's almost, if you were doing private events, and you were
doing such a niche clientele with niche music, it just became essential
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 to have that. CDs were better quality music, and of course when you hit
play on the Denon player, it actually played from the spot, not when you
hit play on the cassette and it took a minute to take off. So yeah,
Denons were one of the first CD players we bought. Obviously
constantly using the Denons. Then we went to Pioneer CDJ's, one of
the first models that we bought for the Pioneer CDJS were a CDJ 1 00s.
I still have those. They're ancient but I still have them.

Rekha: The white ones?

Shilpa: Silver ones over with a big jog wheel. Yep the three effects on those
CD players. And so what happened was, that technology also kind of
became more reliable at an event. I started not wanting to deal w the
records and the needles and stuff like that. It just became really easy to
like show up at an event and hook these things up and I'm ready to go.
So for a really long time I became very comfortable with CDJ's.

Rekha: All right. So where were we. Something about the CDJs.

Shilpa: Yeah I think you were saying what do I play on now.

Rekha: Yeah that's where the questions started.

Shilpa: Yeah.

Rekha: So you were going through the history of like, at some point you
transition to the CDJs, the 100s.

Shilpa: So right now I'm most comfortable on CDJs in a mixer. I also do all
types of events. My main setup for my private events is two CDJ 2000s
and a mixer, whether that's a DJM 2000 or an 800 or an S9, just
depends on what type of event it is. And I make that decision. Playing
in the clubs, you have to be super versatile right now. Some clubs have

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 CDJs, some clubs have turntables. And believe it or not, some clubs
have controllers now.

Rekha: They do. We've seen that. It's happening.

Shilpa: It's happening. But I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I mean
it depends on who you are as a DJ. I want to be a versatile DJ. I want
to be able to play different rooms. I am a professional DJ. I'm good at
what I do. I don't want to show up to a gig and be like, "Yo I can't play
on this because I don't know how." I don't know. So I make it a point to
learn controllers. I make it a point to learn.

Rekha: And this is all via Serato?

Shilpa: Yep.

Rekha: Okay. That is the industry standard.

Shilpa: Industry standard right now. Yeah.

Rekha: How do you learn from cassette to CDJ to controller?

Shilpa: So yeah, again, self-taught. You know just like my dad. I could tell you
the very first time I did a live mix. So we're not using cassette players
anymore at this point, at these at my private gigs with my dad right. We
go to Ohio to do this wedding for someone. And we have our fresh
pioneer CDJ 100. I got my CDs. And we check into the hotel, we set
up. And I specifically remember my dad and I dragged my cousin into it
because we were like, "Well we're going to Ohio, we're gonna need
another set of hands." So me, my dad, and my cousin, we check into
the hotel, we're good, so we go set up the equipment. My dad's like,
"Well we've got a few hours before the wedding starts, so I'm going to
get some rest and your cousin, you can do whatever you want." And
I'm like, "I'm going to go downstairs and practice," and he goes,
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 "Practice what? You know what you're doing." I was like, "No, no, no.
We have to take this to the next level. I can't just drop a song and then
drop the next song on the one." Because that's what I had been doing. I
was playing a song and then when I saw fit to drop the next song, I
would drop the next song on a one. I now wanted to blend. I wanted to
learn how to blend. So I specifically remember spending three hours in
that Ohio ballroom teaching myself how to mix from one song to the
other. Now that kind of came naturally to me because I was in band in
school, and I know music is supposed to sound. I know what BPM is.
Beats per minute. It's the temple of the song. And that I learned in
band. So I'm like OK. Like if I'm playing a song that's 120 beats per
minute, I'm not going to try to match it to a song that's 105 beats per
minute, I'm going to try to match it to a song that's 120 beats per
minute, or within that vicinity. Now, Serato is an industry standard. It
actually shows you the beats per minute for the song. When I was
teaching myself, I use my ear. I didn't have something telling me this
song is 120, this song is 120.

Rekha: Did the 100 do BPM?

Shilpa: It had pitch control. I don't think it showed you the BPM. It had pitch
You had plus or minus. You could bend it using your ear. I have to think
really hard, but I know one of the two songs that I first learned to mix
together were, The Bomb. I don't know. I can't remember.

Rekha: "These Songs Fall Into My Mind."

Shilpa: Yeah yeah yeah. "These Songs Fall Into My Mind." Yeah. That song
and "Saturday Night".

Rekha: Whigfield

Shilpa: Right. So it's like I taught myself how to mix those songs, and I don't
know man, when I did my first mix I was so excited that I figured it out. I
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 felt like I figured out something so huge. I was just like, "Yo I'm on a roll
right now." I literally woke up my dad from his nap, was like, "You got to
come downstairs and hear this." And he comes downstairs and I play it
for him and I do it and he's like, "That's amazing." I don't know if he
appreciated it as much as I did. I think he got it. But he was also just so
big on dropping it on the one for so long, where it took him a minute to
realize.

Rekha: He was into really function, he's like, get it out there.

Shilpa: Yeah. Yep. Exactly.

Rekha: So in the course of like, from when you were your dad's assistant to
now, have you done any other kind of training?

Shilpa: Yeah I think. I mean, just being musically inclined and like having music
in my life for so long. Once high school was over, I was no longer
playing an instrument. And I kind of miss that. So I just started taking
drum lessons in the city, just for fun. Like once a month. Just to keep
up with it, because I missed it. I just have a small pad and drumsticks
that I sometimes bang out to. And I got busier and busier with my with
my gig schedule. As time was moving and whatever, I started realizing
that a lot of DJs were putting out mashups, and a lot of DJs were
working on their own remixes. So I started thinking that I should get into
production. So I went to Dubspot. I picked up a production course for
Ableton which a DAW, it's a software that a lot of people used to
produce.

Rekha: Desktop Audio Workstation.

Shilpa: Yes. So I took the Ableton course and I learned Ableton. It was about a
six month course and I finished it and now I'm Ableton certified. I know
how to use that software very well and I use it mainly to make remixes
and mashups. So yeah, those are things that I continue to do to stay
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 relevant and I just always feel like it's very important to keep investing
in your craft, keep practicing, you know.

And then growing up, like I said, we grew up on turntables. But the
most I ever did on turntables when I was growing up was mixing one
record to the other, or baby scratching one track into the next track.
Recently, about a year and a half ago, I wanted to really sharpen my
turntableism skills. So I reached out to Rob Swift. He's a legend in the
game, hip-hop turntablist. Part of the executioners. And I started taking
lessons with him. It's been about a year and a half that I've been taking
lessons with him and I love it. It's just taken my performance game to
the next level.

Rekha: So speaking of your performance game, and feel free to distinguish if

you do things differently as DJ Shilpa or Scarlett, when you were
actually DJing, do you employ techniques like scratching or any other
techniques aside from playing the music. Is there something, and what
are your feelings around that?

Shilpa: I think every gig is different. But yeah for the most part, what I really
make sure that I can do at every gig is sound clean. I blend really
clean. To be able to go from one genre to the other, from one song to
the other flawlessly, I really pride myself in that. I think that it also keeps
the dance floor engaged. It's a lot easier to dance to music that's not
being interrupted with, like there is no break. But yeah like sometimes if
I'm engaged with the crowd, I'll scratch a little bit or I'll do a routine. In
the club scene, I have a money routine which is like a two or three
minute routine of like money songs.

Rekha: What do you mean by routine, explain.

Shilpa: It's like a routine. It's like a practiced routine, where like let's say I drop
a song, I scratch in another song relevant to the theme that I'm playing.
In this case, let's talk about the money routine. I'll start off with like, "I
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 Got Money" by 50 Cent and then it'll go into "Money, money, money,
money!" Something like that. Then I'll go into like, "I need a dollar", "All
about the Benjamins", but I have a practice routine where there's some
scratches, and I bring the track back. I'll do that in the club scene
because I feel like people appreciate that a little bit more in the club
scene, as opposed to weddings.

Rekha: You wouldn't do that at weddings?

Shilpa: Unless I knew my client for that particular wedding would appreciate
that. Maybe towards the end of a wedding, when everyone's drunk and
would appreciate something like that.

Rekha: Because they're more, like, formal?

Shilpa: Yeah I think weddings are a little bit more formal. There's all walks of
life. I'm not so sure opening up the dance floor with a money routine at
a wedding is really going to work. I think weddings are more like Top
40. And making sure like the parents dance as well as your best friends
that are at the wedding.

Rekha: What's your process of preparing, and how do you decide what you're
gonna play when you are actually DJing?

Shilpa: So the process for preparing for each gig again, very different. I think
for weddings, obviously every wedding comes with an itinerary. Also
sometimes I get a playlist from the bride and groom like, "Hey these are
50 of our most important songs that we want played at the wedding.
These are five songs we absolutely don't want." That kind of allows me
to prepare the general gist of what the music is going to be like. So
that's the pre-prepping for a wedding. Pre-prepping for a club event, I
download new music. I make sure I have dope remixes. If I'm doing the
same club twice in one month, I make sure that my set is different. I

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 don't want to sound exactly the same that I did from the last time I was
at that club.

Rekha: What do you physically do to prepare. Do you make crates, do you

organize?

Shilpa: Yes.

Rekha: How much time do you spend not DJing, prepping for a gig. If there's a
way to characterize a range or something. I'm just trying to assess the
labor involved.

Shilpa: Absolutely. I think that even with my clients, I tell them, "You know how
you wake up in the morning?" I tell my clients, "You wake up around
7:00 or 8:00 o'clock and you get ready to go to work. I wake up too and
I have my cup of coffee and just like you sit down at your desk from 9 to
10 or 9 to 12, the first set of things that you do, I have my cup of coffee
and I sit down at my desk and I research music." New stuff that's out. I
spend about an hour and a half, to two hours a day researching new
music, which is new music that's out in the market as well as dope
remixes that have come out of evergreens or old songs. So yes, I do
spend about an hour and a half to two hours a day on that. I think that
in the past it wasn't so ritualistic about it, but now it has been more and
more. It's become my morning ritual because it really allows me to
differentiate myself from other people. So to answer your question, in
fairness, I spend a lot of time researching new music and making sure
I'm adding that to my playlists. Which I prep for these events.

Rekha: And so you organize them in some sort of folder.

Shilpa: Yeah. Like some of my lists are called, I'll give you some examples.
Latin Anthems. I find another Latin anthem that's new, it gets added to
that list. I have another list called "Don't forget to play tonight." And
that's just because that's fresh new stuff that everyone's responding, to
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 it's popular right now. And I'm probably going forget if I don't add it to
this list.

Rekha: I sometimes forget to play newer music because I'm not used to playing
it. Yeah, I have all kinds of names for lists.

Shilpa: Oh yeah.

Rekha: It's kind of fun. Even when you're making, producing, like naming the
songs.

Shilpa: Yeah. So much fun. I have a list called "dope house remixes of hip-hop
records". So it's just whatever is going to work for you.

Rekha: What do you decide what to play?

Shilpa: At the gig itself?

Shilpa: Yeah.

Rekha: How do you know what to play?

Shilpa: I think it's reading the crowd right. Most gigs will give you a general gist
of what you need to start off with. I think it's great to talk about a current
gig or residency that I have right now. I have this residency at the
Bodega Negra which is a restaurant in the Dream Hotel. I play there
every Thursday from 9:00pm to 12:30am. It's a dinner party,
specifically. So it's not like the people get up and dance or whatever.
They're just listening to dope vibes while they're having dinner. Now the
specific music for this room, and as per instruction of my employer, the
instruction that I've been given is they want an old school vibe, like
disco, feel-good music from the 80's and the 90's, singalong stuff. They
don't want anything new. Like no Drake, no Migos, no hip-hop, like
nothing crazy Top 40, because once these people finish dinner, they go
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 upstairs to PhD, which is a club where they're going to hear all of that
anyway. So I think what they're trying to do with this this room is, you
get to hear these like cool vibes that you're probably not going to hear
upstairs in the club. And so it kind of differentiates the experience . So
taking that residency into consideration, I prep a list. I prep a list of
disco stuff, feel good music, stuff that I can play, like "Jessie's Girl",
"Sweet Caroline", "Livin' On A Prayer", "Don't Stop Believing", stuff like
that. And the way I decide what to play in what order, is how the party
is going. I usually like to start off with a little bit more tame stuff, and
again beats per minute can help you too. I usually like to start off that
dinner music like if I'm in the 95 to 100 beats per minute zone, and
then I build up the party and go more into 127,128 type of beats per
minute.

Rekha: So you're getting very specific directives from the employer.

Shilpa: Yeah for this particular party yes. Yeah.

Rekha: But other places you can sort of play.

Shilpa: But the other places I can sort of just play off of like how the crowd is
reacting. One of the things I really like to do... So let's talk about DJ
Shilpa and how I play at weddings. If I'm doing a South Asian wedding
and both sides are Indian, probably gonna open up the dance floor with
an Indian song because it's going to, in my opinion, get everybody
going. Based on how the crowd reacts to that particular song, I usually
pick my next song. So if I played a pretty popular song that's out right
now, and the reaction's just like crazy, I'm probably going to stick to
another Bollywood song that's also popular. After a few songs I'll
probably transition into something more top 40 and see how the crowd
reacts to that. If the crowd reacts really well and they love it maybe
another top 40 record.

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Rekha: So even with weddings, you're basically deciding on the fly. You're in
the moment.

Shilpa: In the moment. feeling out the crowd. I love going based off of how the
crowd is reacting to me and what I'm playing. That's very important.

Rekha: You say that you make mixes. What do you mean by mix, like a mix
tape, a mix like a... What is a mix to you?

Shilpa: So I think in the beginning of my career, I was making mixes to just

show people my-

Rekha: Tell me what a mix is. What you define as a mix.

Shilpa: Whether it's 30 minutes or an hour, it's just to showcase your skills, in
my opinion

Rekha: So it's bunch of songs.

Shilpa: Put together, mixed well. To be able to show your clientele or whoever
you're putting out the mix for, your style, your skill. How do you go from
one song to the next song. Cause in my opinion you can give 10
different DJs the same 10 songs, and they'll put together a different
mix. If you gave me 10 songs, the way I put those 10 songs together is
gonna be different, like orderwise and how I go from one song to the
other is gonna be super different from the next DJ, who's given that
same 10 songs.

Rekha: Is that experience different than playing live? Than playing those same
songs?

Shilpa: Absolutely, absolutely. My general like rule of thumb for a mix is like, I'll
start off a mix with a track and I'll probably play like a verse, chorus,
verse, chorus, and mix out of the song, and go into the next song. To
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 me and mix is more done just to have something that people can listen
to you on road trips, or in the background of their house while they're
cleaning or whatever, and they're like, "Oh I love the way Shilpa mixes,
and I love this mix," or whatever. Whereas I might not play a verse,
chorus, verse, chorus at a party, because I actually might play a song
at a party, and I play the verse and the chorus, and I notice that the
people are not that interested in the track anymore, like the energy has
gone down, and I might mix out of the song right away. So that's the
difference between doing an actual mix, you don't have a live audience
that you're interacting with. You're doing a mix in your house, you're
just making a mix. It's just you and the equipment.

Rekha: Do you use any other techniques while you're DJing live, like looping,
sampling, any anything that might be used?

Shilpa: Yes looping for sure. One of the easiest examples I can give you is
there's a part in Jay-Z song, "Hustler" where he goes, "It's about to go
down." So you loop that part. So basically he's just saying "it's about to
go down" over and over. Now it's up to you, there's a couple of things
you can do. I like doing several things depending on where I'm at. So if
he's saying, "it's about to go down" and then I loop it again, and then I
go into a turn down for what. And that's wordplay, because he's saying
it's about to go down, and then you do, "turn down for what." At
weddings, Sometimes I do "it's about to go down" and then I drop in the
"Crazy in Love" beat by Beyonce. And it sounds really dope on top of
that loop.

Rekha: So some of these techniques you sort of have in your pocket, or maybe
you practice them home and as you see fit, you employ them.

Shilpa: Yeah.

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Rekha: Okay now we're gonna go into a little bit different area. Do you feel like
you are part of a DJ community? Don't hold back, I know you got shit to
say!

Shilpa: Yeah I would like to think so, but in my opinion I think the DJ industry is
like the only industry that's like really not regulated. It's like a wild, wild
west. It's like to each its own. I wish it was a little bit more regulated but
it's not. And so to answer your question, like do I feel like I'm part of an
industry overall. Yes.

Rekha: Well the question is are you part of a community, not or are you part of
an industry.

Shilpa: No, I don't feel like I'm part of a community.

Rekha: Why not?

Shilpa: It's to each its own. It's everyone's out here for themselves. That's the
feeling I get. I've tried but I don't feel like I'm part of a community at all.

I'll give you an example. I made a post, like being a DJ or whatever. I

think it's important to be cordial with your competition, but you can't
necessarily be best friends with them. At the end of the day, we're still
competition. You know what I mean, to an extent. And someone
commented on my post and were like, "Oh I completely disagree with
this. I'm actually really appalled that you wrote something like this,
because I think DJ family is so important. I've gotten all my gigs base
through my DJ family." to which I responded back like, "What are you
talking about. I've never gotten a gig, like a wedding gig from another
DJ." You know what I mean?

Rekha: Do you think that has anything to do with your gender? Or do you just
think that's the climate of DJs or DJing that you know?

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Shilpa: I don't know. I think it's just the DJ community as a whole. I think it's
just DJs as a whole. I don't know how to explain it. A photographer
once came up to me at a gig and was like, "You know I wanted to ask
you something." I was like, "Yeah go ahead." He's like, "Why do DJs
hate each other?" And I was like, "Dude I don't know how to answer
that. I don't really hate DJs." And then I was like, "You know I think in all
fairness, the only thing I could say is we're very passionate about what
we do. And I think everyone has their own spin of how it should
happen, or everyone has their own spin of how it should be. And
maybe that passion comes out as like we hate on each other. But I
really don't think they hate each other." I think it's I was also trying to be
politically correct with this photographer. That's the best answer I could
come up with. But I get what he's saying because he's like, "It's not like
that for me as a photographer." He's like, "We're very helpful to each
other. We give each other like references or whatever and blah blah
blah." But then again, I have my solid four or five people that I trust.
You being one of them, you know. The lack of a better way to say it, the
four or five people that I fuck with.

Rekha: That's the way you say it! And who are those people?

Shilpa: You being one of them. A few people in the industry in New York.
Unfortunately I can't really say. I'm cordial and friendly with everybody
in my industry. I really am, I tried to be.

Rekha: Let's get into who those people are and why do you... I just want to
know like, I'm interested in the question of community and that's where
this question is coming from. It seems to me that a lot of, what you're
putting together is a mix. You know, just to clarify, you are full time at
this. This is your full-time profession.

Shilpa: Yes.

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Rekha: So there seems to be a motivation to like continue the work and get
more work.

Shilpa: Absolutely.

Rekha: So part of it is about like a certain sense of professionalism and

competence. Is that correct?

Shilpa: Yeah.

Rekha: But then what I'm interested in in terms of community, is like outside of
the commercial or capitalist aspect of what this practice does, is there
something in it that is outside of that. That is about experiencing music,
playing music, that is not necessarily motivated around seeing other
DJs as competition or not. I mean, is there another area around
that... So you say with me-

Shilpa: Yeah, I mean like-

Rekha: You know, and who are those other people in your sphere that you say
that you fuck with?

Shilpa: You know like when you brought me on to the whole Basement
Bhangra scene, that was very special to me. That was very important.
Like that a cool two years of me being a part of something, I think what
you had established is something that not a lot of people have
established in New York City and it's a vibe. It's a culture. I felt like I
was part of something that was so important. I kind of have that with a
bunch of DJs that I follow and go to like these DMC competitions and
stuff like that like.

Rekha: So you think there's a community in the DMC World?

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Shilpa: Yeah I do. I think there's a community in the DMC World, in the Red
Bull competitions. I find that to be less aggressive and people are
actually supporting one another in those. One of the very first times I
decided to do a competition, I was scared. I was scared shitless, but I
wanted to put myself out there and one of the first competitions I did
wasn't even DMC level it was just a DJ competition at the Winter Music
Conference in Miami, and I decided to do that because I just thought it
would be important for me, it would be important for other DJs to know
who I am, not just in the New York City area, but a lot of DJs come to
the Winter Music Conference from all over the place. So I just thought it
was very important for me. I did that and I was scared shitless. I was
like, of course, like it wasn't a perfect execution, but I executed that
performance for that competition 85 percent to like 90 percent of what I
thought it would be. I think I messed up like once, but the amount of
love I got from that community, from those DJs that were at this
competition was just so surprising. It's not something I was used to. I
don't know how to say this, at home. The amount of love that I got from
other DJs was just unreal at that competition, and it really made me
want to do more and more of them. And that's what got me to, let me
hit up somebody that I think is very good at turntableism and learn
more so I could compete more.

Rekha: And have you been competing more?

Shilpa: The next competition I want to do is next year. It's going to be that A-
Trak competition, the Goldie awards. I just got really busy with my
schedule, and I didn't find the time to prep for this year, but I feel like
that's something that I'm aiming to do. That's a goal.

Rekha: In terms of the schedule. Your summer is super busy with weddings.

Shilpa: Super busy, so I tried to take the winter to focus on my craft more. So
January, February, March, I'll focus more on practice. Practicing, hitting

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 goals, learning some more, spending some more time in classes,
because I know I can't do that as much April to September.

Rekha: And in this community of whether it's DMC or Red Bull or these other
places, what's the gender mix of those communities, or the people that
you fuck with.

Shilpa: Right now, there aren't a lot of females doing it in the DMC World or
Red Bull.

Rekha: What about the club scene or the place?

Shilpa: Club scene, yes, it's a little bit more. You do see more and more female
DJs now, as well as male DJs. It wasn't like that 10 years ago, but now
I could say there's a handful of female DJs that I know in New York City
that are doing their thing in the club scene. So yeah, it's becoming
more and more mixed when it comes to gender.

Rekha: And when we're talking about clubs, you're talking about Manhattan?

Shilpa: Yes.

Rekha: Manhattan, Atlantic City, Miami, Atlanta, Los Angeles.

Rekha: Straight clubs. Bottles, like people pay a lot of money?

Shilpa: Yeah. And even like normal rooftop lounges and stuff like that, there's
definitely a mix of now female and male DJs.

Rekha: Do you feel any different in terms of your interactions with them, or
camaraderie or...

Shilpa: I want to say females are obviously going to look out for each other. I
think that is important, right. Like it's funny, I sometimes post on
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 Instagram and I use a hashtag called #FemaleDJ, and a male DJ
reached out to me and was like, "Why do you use that hashtag, like you
don't see me using #MaleDJ." And I was like, "Dude, one it's a hashtag.
Are you serious?" And two, one of the reasons I think that I started
doing it is because I've actually met dope female DJs doing it. Using
that hashtag has allowed me to make friends with other female DJs in
the industry that I wouldn't have known unless I hashtagged myself with
that hashtag.

Rekha: And is that important to you?

Shilpa: Yeah. It kind of is. I guess maybe a part of me is looking for that
camaraderie in the scene. I want to be able to discuss with other
female DJs some of the things that we might go through, that's all.

Rekha: What are those things?

Shilpa: Like as a female, I find myself having to prove myself so much. I

literally have to go in and kill a party for someone to be like, "OK you're
validated." As opposed to a dude that would just get booked and
probably wouldn't have to submit a mix.

Rekha: You feel you have to work hard-

Shilpa: Harder.

Rekha: Because you're a woman.

Shilpa: Absolutely. People just assume I'm not going to know what I'm doing.
They just assume like, "Oh I don't think she'll be able to handle it. I
don't know how to describe how I get that feeling, but I do.

Rekha: You book your own shows, you book your own gigs?

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Shilpa: Yeah.

Rekha: You interact with the people that are booking you.

Shilpa: Yes. Private events. 100 percent. I interact with my client. My clientele
comes directly to me. It's a very boutique way of doing it. I meet with
my clients personally. Club scene, yeah. Right now I'm booking myself.
I don't have management. I don't even have PR.

Rekha: What do you mean, you don't even have PR. Is that something you
aspire to do?

Shilpa: Yeah. Because you know PR obviously helps you get into some places
where I probably can't get into. You know I think PR is important right
now especially if you're trying to elevate your brand. At the end of the I
want to be able to do the Netflix holiday party, or like I'm South Asian,
so I should be kind of doing some South Asian events as a South Asian
DJ. Let's just make up an event. I don't know, Bollywood Awards
Afterparty. You know what I'm saying. Not that something like that
exists.

Rekha: Girl, I should be doing those!

Shilpa: Do you get what I'm saying?

Rekha: Yeah. What does it mean to do those events? I mean, you think
because they're visible?

Shilpa: Yeah I think it creates a little bit more visibility for your brand, you know.
And I think it's important. Like it also shows, I don't know how to say
this, like people supporting me. It also shows they're willing to support
me and my brand.

Rekha: Have you ever felt unsafe while DJing?

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Shilpa: No. No.

Rekha: Best gig, worst gig?

Shilpa: I don't know. I've had so many dope gigs.

Rekha: Bad gigs?

Shilpa: So many dope gigs, Bad gigs?

Rekha: And what makes a bad gig, if there's a bad gig.

Shilpa: I can't even say I've had like a really bad gig. I think maybe there's
been bad situations, like I've walked into a gig where the equipment
wasn't working properly and I've just had to troubleshoot.

Rekha: Can you give me an example in one of those situation where the
equipment's not working? Why? Is it because the venue is just not
equipped properly...?

Shilpa: I mean I went into one gig and I was told there was going to be two
CDJs and a mixer. The one CDJ was down, just wasn't working. The
pitch wasn't working. I basically couldn't even mix, you know.

Rekha: What did you do?

Shilpa: Instant doubles on Serato. Serato allows you to play on one player and
then you can switch it to the next player by using instant doubles, and
then mix on the player that's actually working. So that's how I trouble
shot that.

Rekha: How was the venue about it? What did they do?

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Shilpa: I just alerted the manager and was like, "You know there's something
wrong with this player" and he goes, "Yeah I think we're aware," and I
was like, "Ok". I was like, "Are you guys doing anything to fix it?" And
he was like, "Yeah this player is supposed to go into the shop soon."
And that was the end of.

Rekha: That was it. Like, too bad.

Shilpa: Yeah, that was that.

Rekha: Have you ever been in those situations, do you feel like the people, the
venue, the management has doubted your competence.

Shilpa: Oh yeah, yeah. I've definitely walked into venues the management has
come up to my team, and been like-

Rekha: Who is in your team?

Shilpa: My roadies and my husband. This is for a private event. So they'll walk
up to my team and be like, "Oh, are you guys the DJ?" And Neil and my
roadies will be like, "No it's DJ Shilpa, she's right over there," and they'll
continue to address my team.

Rekha: And not talk to you?

Shilpa: And not talk to me.

Rekha: And these are people at the venue.

Shilpa: Yep.

Rekha: I think that's it. Is there anything else you want to add? I have one more
question. But is there anything else you want to add?

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Shilpa: Not really I think.

Rekha: So my last question is, you use the word brand a lot. Do you consider
yourself an artist, and is there a difference between artist and a brand?

Shilpa: I am an artist, for sure. But I'm also building a brand. I think building a
brand is important in what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to build a brand
that's reliable, that's professional, that people can trust. They hire me,
and they know that they're going to get good music. And you know that
that I'm gonna show up on time, and I'm going to be professional at
their event.

Rekha: Do you have other gigs you've done where you feel like you can play
whatever you want? I guess like in the sense of there's directives, of
this dinner party, which has a certain vibe, and a lot of times in my
experience the club places, there's a limit to how much you can push
the music. There's always a secret code of "don't get to X. Do you feel
like you have places where you can just play whatever?

Shilpa: Yeah I do.

Rekha: Or do you feel constrained in those spaces?

Shilpa: No I think like a few of the places that I've done, you know recently,
Magic Hour being one of them in New York City. I'm really allowed to
kind of just do me. And I appreciate that. I am overall a Top 40 DJ. You
know, I like playing to the room. I like making sure people have fun. But
I like throwing in classics. I like all types of music. Being able to blend
different things, I'm able to do that at certain venues and I enjoy that.

Rekha: How do you control or do you have influence over your visual
representation for promotionally, like on the flyer, photos, do you have
visuals playing when you're performing?

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Shilpa: I mean if some venues allow for it, they'll throw my logo up on the
projectors or the screens, which is helpful. People get to basically
search you on social media if you're logos up there. I think that's
important. At weddings, no. Private events, no. And then in terms of
flyer parties, you do your photoshoots. I've got to do some new ones
because I've been using the same pictures for like last year.

Rekha: 11 years I've used the same picture.

Shilpa: Yeah. So, you know how it goes.

Rekha: All right. So this question is: So do women ever come up to ask you for
advice or help on how to DJ? Have you interacted with people who are
aspiring in any way.

Shilpa: Yes. More so in recent years. I think in the earlier part of my career, no.

Rekha: Say it in a sentence. People have come up to me.

Shilpa: Women have come up to me and asked me for advice on how to start
DJing, learning, and how to put themselves out there, more so in recent
years, than in the beginning of my career. And I think that's because
things are changing. Maybe they're more encouraged to actually follow
their heart and do what they want to do, as opposed to feeling
restricted. And I'm talking about South Asian women in general, like
there aren't a lot of South Asian female DJs. And I wonder why. I feel
like there should be more of us. I'm not so sure if that's because people
feel in the South Asian community, there's almost like this, I don't have
to explain it to you!

Rekha: But explain it to the tape.

Shilpa: I think that you understand and-

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Rekha: You're not talking to me.

Shilpa: I don't think that it's DJing or that sort of field is encouraged in the
South Asian culture. Like even with me, let's just talk on a personal
level. My dad obviously encouraged it because he was a DJ and he
had no problem with it, but my mom had a huge issue with it. We didn't
speak for six months. She always thought it was like, "Okay yeah it's a
phase, she'll get over." But she made sure I went to college, which I'm
also very thankful for. But when I decided to do this full time, we didn't
speak for six months because she said, "How are you gonna take care
of yourself. This is not a profession that you can rely on when it comes
to the money," and blah blah blah. I think our parents are so focused on
making sure that we make a good living. That's all she was kind of
trying to say. But I also think that she didn't understand that you can
actually make a living off of this now, because there is a need for talent.
There is a need for a good quality DJs.

I mean, initially there were not a lot of women coming up to me and I

just chalked it up to I don't think there's a lot of women that are
pursuing this path. Whereas now, I've had a few people reach out to
me. Younger ladies have reached out to me and said, "Hey I want to
learn DJing, and how can I go about it..."

Rekha: What's your response to them?

Shilpa: I'm open. I'm like, "Hey! Like if there's basics you want to learn, yeah
we could totally get together in my studio. I don't have a problem
teaching you some basics like mixing," and whatever. I try to see where
they're at. Some of them that have reached out to me; they understand
the basics of mixing and whatever and they just want to know how to
put themselves out there more. And my response to that is always: go
out. Tell people that you DJ. Put yourself out there on social media. Go
up to people you admire. Be friends with them. Tell them what you're
trying to do. That's like my number one thing. No one's dreaming that
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 you're a DJ. If you're just sitting in your basement or your studio and
making mixes, how are people supposed to know you're actually doing
this and you're actually pursuing it. No one's gonna know unless you
put yourself out there.

Rekha: That's it. We're good.

Shilpa: Cool.

Rekha: Awesome.

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Interview Transcript:

Twelve45

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 (Edited) Interview with Twelve45

Rekha: So tell me about where you grew up. What was your neighborhood? A
little bit about your background.

Twelve45: Sure. I was born in Brooklyn. I was there until I was five, and then we
moved to Hollis, Queens. I lived there and went to elementary school in
Queens, Cambria Heights. Not too far from there. And then I commuted
to Brooklyn, Bushwick for middle school and then Fort Greene for high
school.

Rekha: Did you go to Brooklyn Tech?

Twelve45: Yes I did.

Rekha: I heard that coded language. My niece worked there.

Twelve45: [Laughs]. It's the only like big school, or maybe like George Washington
and a couple of others schools. Yeah. But yes, I pretty much grew up
commuting. Even in grade school, I had to take two city buses.

Rekha: Wait, so you can move from Cambria heights to Brooklyn Tech?

Twelve45: Well Hollis. I went to elementary school in Cambria Heights. So I was

taking two buses in fourth and fifth grade, taking buses to go to school.

Rekha: I know Hollis very well. I grew up in Westbury Long Island.

Twelve45: Oh ok, you're not far.

Rekha: So when we were broke, we would just take the bus all the way to
Queens. N22.

Twelve45: Yes. Oh yeah. [Laughs]

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Rekha: I'm sure you must've taken it the other way to get to the Roosevelt
Field.

Twelve45: Yeah I have. I have taken it. And it's funny that you mention that
because I was talking to a friend, because my friend lives in Harlem,
and I would make fun of them because they have to go like a Target
and stuff in the Bronx. I'm, I'm giving you a hard time, I had to go to
stuff in Long Island. I wasn't that far away. Yeah I get it.

So out there, a lot of gifted and talented programs. Pretty much why I
was going to none of my neighborhood schools. I went onto the PAL
like in Hollis. It was think St. Pascals, before that. But I went to that
PAL, a Police Athletic League. Yeah, so like after school, summer
camp. That type of stuff. So until like 13 1was pretty...

Rekha: That was your connection, you still have roots in the community?

Twelve45: Yeah.

Rekha: People your age.

Twelve45: Yeah I did. It's funny you mention that because I always feel like I didn't
have as much, but it was funny, I was walking to the gym one day, and
this dude who went to PAL with me, he recognized me. I was like, "Oh
yeah, you did." You're from New York, you want to have some type of
street cred, you know, it's a thing. And I feel like I don't have any so I
was like, "Oh no, I'm not here. I did the thing. I was out here in my
streets doing the stuff."

Rekha: Hollis is famous, because obviously it has deep hip-hop connections.

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Twelve45: Yeah. I saw LL Cool J at the Red Lobster at Green Acres one time. My
mom hated it, because this is like '96, because cell phone were
popular, so he was on the phone, outside with people, you know.

Rekha: I knew somebody who knew somebody that was dating him, and they
had his phone number, and he had this rap as his outgoing message.
[Laughs] I just remember, people would call him just to hear the rap.

Twelve45: Right.

Rekha: And then one time we were coming home from clubbing and we
stopped at Georgia diner in Queens as you do. And he was sitting
there, kind of by himself or with one other person with a big fur coat just
being really obvious. And then one time it was really funny because we
were, after a club night, we were in the Waverly diner and I had just
said this, I'm like, "Who orders lobster at a diner? Who orders all these
things that at a diner?" I've never seen anybody. Before you know it,
DMC walked in with two or three other people, and they totally ordered
up the fanciest things in the menu. It was pretty funny. And one time I
went to-I have all these sightings. Anyway, we digress. Let's get back
to this. I know there's also a Jam Master J Way.

Twelve45: Oh yeah. On 2 0 5th. It has a big mural. That's literally the streets I was, I
just moved from... I move and I came back in 2013. So I was living
there until 2017. And then, still at my mom's, still there, so I'm always
like back there. So I'm driving, I'll be at my gas station I always go. My
my Walgreen's right over there.

Rekha: Well a lot of kids I went to college with lived in Queens Village. So what
was the makeup of your neighborhood like? What kind of music did you
guys listen to, and was it different in your household, around the way, in
your neighborhood? Were there any community events with music and
was that different from your experience at school?

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Twelve45: Yeah I think a bit. My mom, a lot of RnB being, so I was going to
elementary school with Roberta Flack CDs and The Spinners, that was
what I was listening to. I had to learn more about hip-hop. I heard it on
a radio and I knew what it was. But that just wasn't what I was listening
to. I remember like getting really really turned on to it when The Fugees
came out. I spent that summer in Brooklyn. So I that's all you heard,
and I was like, "Man this is bananas what's going on!" And then like, I
listened to a lot of Bad Boy. I had a neighbor who would recite Biggie
lyrics. He put me on to Notorious Thugs, like that is my favorite rap
song. I can do all of Biggies verses. My family's from the Caribbean, so
my mom didn't play like a lot of reggae and soca, but like mainstream
Bob Marley and stuff.

Rekha: What part of the Caribbean?

Twelve45: Barbados, my parents are from Barbados. And then my family friends
who are from Jamaica, Trinidad. I was under a decent amount of
protection. My mom didn't let me run the streets so much. What would
happen is because Hollis was Hollis, people will come through there.
So I think with Puffy and Nas or "You Can Hate Me Now", that was not
far from my house. Sometimes rough riders would drive down Hollis for
all their things. I could be in the neighborhood and I get stuff. And then
of course the parks and stuff would have music and hip-hop, but I
wasn't really encouraged to hang out late at all those places, so I would
be on the block mostly, if I was going anywhere. So it's funny, because
a lot of people talk about all the parties at skate rinks, and I didn't have
that experience. People think it's interesting because I wasn't a night
owl anyways, like parties, you know. But to be in this profession now...

Rekha: Right. I hear you. I hear you.

Twelve45: Everyone's like, "Oh yeah you must have..." but that wasn't it, I was in
college out there, more so. Whereas like I started going out and stuff....

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Rekha: So Barbados, that's where Rihanna's from. Barbados has such a
particular different history in the Caribbean. It was sort of an island that
was actively involved-you know I just read about this history. It's a
really interesting place. I took the class last semester on Beyonce and
Rihanna. So where did you go to college?

Twelve45: Hampton University in Virginia.

Rekha: And what was that musically, for you?

Twelve45: Well that was wonderful. I was so excited. What's great about it is it's a
historically Black university. It had all these Black people from
everywhere. So in New York, you have Black people from everywhere.
But it's different. I had the Reggae, the Soca, the rap, the RnB. But like,
chopped and screwed, no one told me about chopped and screwed. I
live in New York and I feel like I had never heard Jersey Club or
Baltimore Club, and I was like, "What the fuck! Y'all right!". It was a
beautiful experience music-wise. I got there and burnt everybody's CD,
I was like, "Give me that, give me that, give me that." I want that music.
So it was beautiful. West coast, Hyphy.

Rekha: I think it's so interesting that Jersey Club feels so much more
connected with the Baltimore sound. They're so similar and it's true,
people in New York, if they don't know, they just don't know.

So college was like a whole another set of musical awakening in some

ways.

Twelve45: And then I feel like the Southern bands, and people were listening to
different things and just like you know hip-hop, but by that time, had
officially spread. We were getting into the Internet music age. I
graduated in '09 , so we were just getting into everybody's mixtapes,
and all that stuff, online. It was great.

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Rekha: And just to go back, or to go forward depending on where you are.
What's your first memory ,if you have one, you may not, of seeing a
DJ? In person, or a lot of people say, "I saw one on TV." Do you have
that first memory?

Twelve45: I feel like I don't have that first memory. I feel like, because growing up
in New York, I just grow up kind of knowing what a DJ was, not
necessarily what they did. You know, like learning to DJ you're like, "Oh
shit, I didn't know all this was going on!" But you have the rap groups,
you have the park jams. I think the first time I appreciated DJs, like
really specifically was college. Because they had to have new music
mashups, a lot of different things. And that's when I really understood
the flow of mixtapes. I would get mixtapes a lot. So I was commuting. I
would be coming back to Jamaica Avenue. So I'd be getting all the
different mixtapes. And I'm sure they were like good ones with good
mixes but they were mostly, like track based, you know.

Rekha: Right.

Twelve45: And it wasn't till I memorized a transition from one to the next was in
college. But that's when I was paying more attention. I think I listened to
album some more so. I always had headphones on. My friends, the
ones who knew me, they're like, "I'm not surprised that you got into
music because you always had your headphones on." I was like, "I just
assumed when everyone did." That was a boom of you known CD
players got real cheap. iPods and all that stuff. Wasn't everyone in their
headphones listening to music? Everyone loves music right now. But I
think I just listened to more albums and projects that way. So when I
got to college where I had to discover music through everyone else.
And we had a college DJ, so it was like this person on campus, at the
party. Remember I didn't go out a lot. So I didn't know...

Rekha: A lot of Indian kids have this experience. You know whenever you grow
up in a conservative environment, and then you go to college, it's like
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 "What!" So when did you start? What was your first experience of
yourself DJing? How did you learn?

Twelve45: Yes. I learned, I went to scratch. This was 2014. I started taking
classes March 2014. So that was like my first time like DJing, learning
how to DJ and playing out. But there were years of me just at friends'
gatherings and parties doing a playlist. I remember one party
specifically, a few parties. I moved to New Orleans right after school
and I would just be like creating through YouTube channels at peoples'
parties, being the DJ. People were like, "Oh wow, like, this is crazy." I
was like, doing that. It's really weird to look back on it, because I'm like
the music sucks, we can't just go off Pandora playlists, like the ad
would come on, just everything would irritate me. So how do you fix it?
You know the person throwing the party, their hosting.

Rekha: When did you know you wanted to do it? You were in a "make the
experience better" situation, and you were, and maybe you got known
as the person who could handle the music better, right?

Twelve45: Yeah. I think I got known as it, but known one would help me come play
music, if that makes sense.

Rekha: So then you went to scratch academy in 2014. When did you do your
first gig?

Twelve45: My first gig gig was that December 2014. I hadn't played out. I did my
scratch graduation, I felt like I did a set. First time I've played out, like
someone invited me to gig, was that December.

Rekha: Ok. And what was that gig? Do you remember?

Twelve45: Yeah it was Von Bar, Dr. Unos & Dubs. Ellison, he was my first DJ
teacher, and he was like, "Hey you want to do this?" I was like, "Sure,
yeah!" And I had come out to Von before. It was cool.
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Rekha: Do you remember what your set was?

Twelve45: Oh yeah, it was great. It was RnB, hip-hop, this 90's to 2000's, like
everything feel-good. I'm mad because my friend had a live stream of it.
I would go back and watch it every now and then. It was another DJ,
she was really dope too. Twenty Tammy, DJ Twenty

Rekha: And then from there, what was the next round of gigs, and how long
was your scratch? When you went to scratch, how many classes was it,
was it a set of classes?

Twelve45: Yeah I did the whole thing. I took a one on one class, so I was teaching
at the time, and I took a leave of absence from teaching and I really
need to find something I wanted to do. So I took a DJ class and then it
was kind of a wrap from there. I had to leave this, and then I picked up
a class and was like, "Man I really like this." So I took all the classes,
they have a certificate programs, so I took all of them. So I took one
class like the 101, and I took the 202 class. My mom came to see the
performance, we had to do like a little six song set.

Rekha: And what did you learn on? You learned on tables, with vinyl, or
what...?

Twelve45: So the first the first 101 class was all vinyl, but I started learning on
Serato, almost immediately me because I was around all these DJs, so
I was just looking at what they were doing. They had all the equipment
there. So I downloaded like Serato. I downloaded Serato DJ, was
actually the first Serato program I downloaded. I had to download
Scratch Live afterwards, just for some stuff. This was 2014.

Rekha: So they'd already moved to DJ.

Twelve45: Yeah they had already moved to DJ, so that was the first program I
downloaded.
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Rekha: Who were your instructors?

Twelve45: So the first 101 was Ellison who was Dr Unos & Dubs, is his name.

Rekha: What were their genders?

Twelve45: This is a great question. So all my instructors for my actual classes

were men. The person who really took me under their wing when they
saw me practicing in the space was Rogue Cruz, also a very dope DJ. I
came in maybe four to five days a week since I started. So when I
finished, I was probably like three hours a day.

Rekha: Wow so you practice. You would come in and practice three hours a
day.

Twelve45: Yeah I would treat it like a job. I wasn't working anymore, so I was like,
"This is what I'm going to do." This is what's happening.

Rekha: So what was the name of that instructor that took you under their wing?

Twelve45: Rogue.

Rekha: So he took you under his wing?

Twelve45: She.

Rekha: Ah! So all the instructors were men but Rogue, a woman, took you
under her wing. Can you tell me more about the gender dynamic? What
were your classmates?

Twelve45: Sure. So actually, I would say majority of the people taking classes at
Scratch were men, but I had a lot of women around me, so Tammy who
I mentioned, she was a Scratcher woman also. I think she was a
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 teaching assistant when I was there. I think I'm sure she went up to
instructor afterwards. And then Nina Vicious, now, and she would come
through every now and then. And then in my 202 class, there was two
women and one guy and then it was 303, it was like three women, two
guys. So I had a lot of women around, and I was like in the space. All
the teachers, all the actual instructors were men. Except Rogue. She
worked there, She would do private instructions. She was one of the
desk and sales people so she worked there.

Rekha: But she was also a DJ and she also gave instruction.

You know Jay Master Jay was one of the founders. And his son is a DJ
now.

Twelve45: Yes, Mizell.

Rekha: So outside of DJing, did you grow up learning any musical instruments
or do you have a musical background.

Twelve45: Mmhmm. In high school, drums. It is pretty handy. I think another

reason why I just like started practicing, because you have to do your
rudiments and stuff. So yeah, drums. I tried to guitar a bit, but I didn't
really pick that up too much. I mess around with Fruity Loops and stuff.
Nothing really serious. And that was mainly it. My freshman year we
had a band, and I picked drums, and then I told the church then and I
told the drummer, so I did lessons with him, and then I got a few other
kids at the church to come and do some drum stuff. So we had a little
mini drum line which was cool.

Rekha: That's dope. So your first gig was at Von because that's where they do
the graduation. No?

Twelve45: No, I did a set for graduation, which was at Scratch.

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Rekha: You know why I'm getting that confused, because Dub Spot used to
their graduation downstairs. So how did you get from that gig, when did
you start gigging more, or what was the next step in your DJ story.

Twelve45: So there was this meetup group that had opened turntables, at this
place called Skinny Bar in Lower East Side. So I was just signed up for
a set, like an hour set. Because it's great to have some place to invite
people out to. Like, I'm DJing here, and just get the jitters. For some
reason at Von, I was fine. I think it was just I was in a familiar place
around familiar people, and I got to a skinny bar and I got lots of jitters.
I was mixing well, but people couldn't talk to me. I was like "mmm". This
guy was trying to ask questions, and I was like, "After this, I can, like..."
I just I couldn't really function fluidly. I think the booth felt really exposed
too.

Rekha: Yeah.

Twelve45: You know like, it was a table, you are pretty open, and getting used to
space. It was just a different experience, which is interesting because it
felt like a regression. Like, "Oh you were comfortable at Von, you're
good, and and in this space it was like, "Ugh". I couldn't. I did that for a
few months. I think January I did almost every Tuesday. I did maybe
every other for a while.

Rekha: How did you transition from that into other gigs. Did that get you
noticed?

Twelve45: No, I wouldn't say got me noticed. I think it got people who, knowing I
was DJing frequently because I would post flyers, you know what I'm
saying? It was a huge jump. I wasn't in music, I wasn't in the scene.
Really only played to people who know other DJs, and they're usually
not trying to come out to the same gigs over and over. So that was that
was part of it. And then other DJs, like some other DJs from Scratch
started giving me gigs. I was really good at documenting. In the sense
289
 of like I would put it on Bands In Town, and tell people to come out, all
those things. I was really trying to build a following. Did that. Trying to
figure out where like my next gig gig was.

Rekha: Is this your primary profession now? That's the kind of the journey.
Walk me through how does it go from intense practicing to turntables to
getting gigs to whatever else you've done. Let's take a step back for a
minute, what's your method? Are you Serato, do you use controller,
CDJs?

Twelve45: Serato, mostly. I like turntables. I've been playing on CDJs a lot lately
with the radio show I do, and as a function of a lot of the places.

Rekha: I gave up asking for turntables because they're all they're in terrible
condition. I got tired of carrying around needles, and control records. I
gave in. I gave up. I started on vinyl too. Vinyl because I play a lot of
Indian music, and from the get-go we had use CDs. From the
beginning, so kind of needed to have all of it. So you're Serato-based
and prefer turntables, but comfortable with CDJs. Do you use
controllers at all?

Twelve45: I do use controllers. It's much more mobile. So currently I am the

musician and resident for a class at Steps on Broadway. So that, like, I
need to be on a controller. There's no way I'm setting up...

Rekha: So what controller do you use?

Twelve45: Mix Track Pro 3 or something like that.

Rekha: What brand is that?

Twelve45: Numark.

Rekha: Oh it's a Numark.

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Twelve45: I dot understand the Pioneer.

Rekha: You know, it's too big though. Pioneer is bulky. Really bulky. And then
when you DJ, do you...? How would you describe your physical, way
you DJ? Do you blend, do you cut? Do you talk on the mic?

Twelve45: I don't talk on the mic too much. I talk on the mic during my radio show,
just so people know what's happening. Sometimes I don't talk enough.
Like almost 40 minutes will pass, "Oh yeah. I need to say something."
But I'm blending, blends are like my thing, and I do cut. I like to cut
where it makes sense. I do little audio drops and stuff like that. I want to
get back to scratching for real. That's my next thing.

Rekha: Do you do any production edits?

Twelve45: Yeah I did. I did this certification at Scratch for production as well.

Rekha: What did they teach you on Ableton?.

Twelve45: Ableton.

Rekha: And so do you use any of that, like you make edits or mashups or
anything?

Twelve45: Yeah I do some edits. I've done refixes and stuff like that. And then I
produce, I work with a rapper. Like I'm her tour DJ. I produce some
tracks for her.

Rekha: I'm gonna have to get a resume from you, because you have a lot
going on.

Twelve45: I do! I need to write all that.

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Rekha: Let me make a suggestion as someone who has DJed for almost
twenty seven years. And I'm so bad about writing things down. I wish I
had a notebook, where I just had the date and wrote down what the gig
was, and then that's all I wrote and maybe two or three thoughts about
it. Just keep that as record. You know, just like one interesting thing. I
also wish I saved ten dollars from each gig. but that's another story.

So what do you what's your opinion on like cutting, scratching, cutting?

What's your opinion on scratching and turntabling during a set, like all
these fancy button but they have now, like loop roll, this, that. What's
your thoughts on that.

Twelve45: I love everything, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the music. Like
for me, it should be adding. Ilove cutting and scratching, but I'm not
doing it so that you just only hear me cutting and scratching. I'm using it
as an added element to what's happening. I'm using it to introduce the
next song I'm using. It's like you're still having a good listening
experience. I feel like as long as this is still a good musical and listening
experience, I like them. They sound good, I use them sometimes, I'll
have the same tracks going and use a loop roll, like in a thing. My thing
is we have the technology, like we should be better DJs. There is
nothing wrong with just a straight mixing, I don't have a problem with
that, I do often. But it's just like we have so much at our fingertips that
people, look, like people were literally cutting pieces of tape and taping
them together to do that, you know what I'm saying? They're people
who spend hours innovating, like use it! Use it, but use it well. Part of
my name is like, it's about just the music, right. I'm not there to get in
the way of the music. Anytime I personally make a decision about
DJing, like it's me and what I want, it never sounds good. It's what
music needs to be and what needs to happen. So cut if you can cut. If
you like cutting, get better at that. But some people, I can't enjoy your
set. Either it's a vision set or you're here for the people. It can be a bit
of both, but like really, don't kill the vibe.

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Rekha: Is there anyone who you see that does that well?

Twelve45: That's a great question. Because what I like about different DJs, are
these things I kind of want to pull for myself. I don't want to say that I'm
my favorite DJ, but I play music the way I like to hear it. Does that make
sense?

Rekha: It does and sometimes I am my favorite DJ, because I don't think...and

I don't know why it's so hard.

Twelve45: I liked being on Carl Cox's set at the other day. And I want to get better
with multiple decks. like I'm going to get up before I my there. Yeah.

Rekha: That's generational. They have the rotary mixers. They were doing like
25 minute blends. They were doing so subtle. But also the music they
were using allows for it, it was produced in that way, that was meant for
layering. You know like Danny Taneglia too, there's a bareness to it
that lends itself to layering, which is really nice. I mean one DJ that I
think kind of does it ok, or good, I don't know if you've heard of DJ
Kayper, I mean there's so many DJs now. She's become more of a
bottle service-ish DJ, but she has hip-hop roots.

Twelve45: I saw her before. One of my friends and instructors at Scratch did a
party called Brooklyn Took It, at Friends and Lovers. So I saw her
perform there. I'm trying to remember if I was on that bill or not,
because it was like, the woman stuff and different stuff, but you know
she killed it. I like the way she does scratching with good music. She
didn't let it get in the way of the music, that's what I'm talking about.

Rekha: I think sometimes A-track is good like that. Because again,

foundationally these are hip-hop DJs who are now playing open format
and leaning towards dance music. So I think that's why it works for
them. But let's go back to the journey. Lead me to your current resume.

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Twelve45: So after teaching, going into DJing. I taught math. So when I came
back here, I was teaching middle school math, I taught high school
math, and I was teaching in New Orleans. Which was also great for me
musically, I discovered bounce music and second line and all the other
stuff, so that was great. And so I was teaching math. I was still trying to
figure out, I think it was gigging, here and there, and then the summer
of 2015, I started teaching with this nonprofit called Building Beats,
where we teach DJing and music production to kids throughout the city.
So I started doing that and I'm trying to remember, I feel like I had
gotten a few more gigs and was doing some things.

It's really hard to remember that far back. But one of the things that
happened was I met a young lady who did a review of my friends'
music, and we met up and she did a RnB trivia party. Like I told you, I
love RnB.

Rekha: That's when I met you! Or I met her. I remember hearing about this
trivia party.

Twelve45: So like she mentioned that. I was like, "Yeah, I'm just like doing random
gigs and stuff. Anytime, I'm down." You know how it is with parties like
this, she was like "It ain't much fame," and I was like, I'm trying to like
play music that I enjoy for people that enjoy it. I went to one, and I was
like, "Yeah yeah. So let me know". And so through that and as it
progressed, ended up being like the resident DJ for that.

Rekha: What was the name of that party?

Twelve45: It went from Jam Pardy to RnB trivia. So J-A-M P-A-R-D-Y, then we
named letters R-N-B trivia.

Rekha: That was in Bushwick, right?

Twelve45: Yeah, over by Trophy bar.

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Rekha: Right, right. I think I got a flyer for it. And that was monthly or weekly?

Twelve45: It was monthly. Yeah. I just became a regular there. For me, all of my
gigs have been, for better or worse, handed to me. There's very few gig
that I'd go out and get. Like people who had heard me play before
would call me for their parties and stuff.

Rekha: That's how most gigs work.

Twelve45: Yeah, yeah exactly.

Rekha: Like most DJs, that's how you get it. You ask any of those old folks.
You do a gig and get another gig, it's very hard you go out find your
own show.

You've mentioned a lot about the DJ community, like the Skinny Bar
and learning from scratch. How would you define the DJ community?

Twelve45: That's a great question. I was say anybody who DJs and cares about
DJing. To be honest. Because there are some people in the community
who are not my favorite DJs, but they made sure that they say, "Oh
here's an opportunity for you." So that was the community. The guys
who did the open turntables. And then sometimes it was just people
from Scratch. There was a lot of Scratch people, who had heard and
looked out, because I did this certification program, I started in March
and ended in October. I was one of the premiere people for the
graduation. Someone made a comment like, "If you spend time,"
because I in there all the time. So I feel like one, I had the inclination,
obviously with music and I had that the rhythmic timing stuff, but also
like I spent a lot of time with the music and learning how to manipulate
it and play with it. So it's like people took notice of that. Like I care
about how music is played. It's just a fact. So people in the DJ

295
 community who really care about that try to make spaces for people
who do that.

Rekha: And that's men and women? Across the board, right?

Twelve45: Yes, I would say across the board. In, 2015 I was doing some meetups,
women beatmaker meetups at Dub Spot. That's how I met Kristen,
she's a producer and she DJs as well, and some other women
producers. So even just being the space, being able to be encouraged
and encourage other people. So there's one young lady who I only new
on Twitter. But she was dating someone I'd met at Scratch. She did
some really great SoundCloud mixes and she was expressing online
how she was afraid to DJ in front of people. I was like, "Oh, no that's
not a problem." I invited her to one of the beatmaker meetups. It wasn't
about DJing specifically, but it was about the confidence of being in
community.

Rekha: Of being in community. So these women meetups, they were obviously

all women and was that an important space? Who initiated that?

Twelve45: It was Kristin and this other woman, I'm really blanking on her name.
But she was really great. And offered really great feedback, things that
you need to hear, not like being mean, but like, "Oh you need to layer
those claps. You need to do this. You need to do that." Like, thank you,
I wouldn't know what I wasn't hearing but that was... Just even just
being in a space where you come in, and it's just people trying for
something, dabbling in something or being a professional. They would
bring in in professionals to talk to us, because that was part of their
network. So that was great.

Rekha: That's awesome. So, keep going down your journey. Tell me more.

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Twelve45: So I would say as far teaching at Building Beats, it was just like doing
gigs. People start hitting me up. I can't recall a specific progression. I
would just do open turntables, people hit me up.

Rekha: Were you able to make a sustainable living out of this?

Twelve45: I was still living in Hollis at my mom's house. So it was quite subsidized.
She was cooking. [Laughs] So Building Beats helped a lot. I was doing
a lot because I had a teaching background, too. I had a lot of
workshops. It was easy for me to take two, and then I ended up moving
up. That so that fall, I ended up building out some of the curriculum and
then moving into the youth programming leads. I was looking over all
the workshop leaders and working with them.

Rekha: So you were still working in music but that was another job in
education. Music and education together.

Twelve45: Yeah, that's what I really like. It's interesting because I started DJing at
27. Trying to figure out a certain things, and what I really liked about
what happened is I had gotten all the things that I needed, experience I
needed to be sustained through it, and then also like I got into DJing, I
didn't know DJing was becoming popular at the time that I'd gotten into
it, but because it has become popular, because it has like current
technological advances, because there was a certain accessible
community, I feel the timing of it was really great. I could even be able
to do Building Beats, because Building Beats didn't exist like five years
before, you know. Doing that was really one of the ways I was
contributing, to both my skill set and my pockets.

Rekha: So how many times a week would you DJ?

Twelve45: I would say twice a month, like for sure. I was like out somewhere doing
something maybe, like maybe open turntables and RnB trivia.

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Rekha: And were they like places that people paid to get in? Did you ever
create your own nights, or your own thing?

Twelve45: No.

Rekha: You've been just working.

Twelve45: I can't remember exactly, I think it might have been like winter 2015. I
had hit the pavement with Rogue and tried to go out to venues and do
stuff, and that's just not how I see myself doing it. I was glad like we
went and did it, because I was like, "Ok now you see like what's playing
where, what's on what..."

Rekha: That wasn't your thing. Some people organize their own club nights or
their own parties, it's a whole different skill. For some people, they
wanted to do that.

Twelve45: And also people have different networks. Some people have like 50
people come out. I don't, like I could do the work to do that. That's not
really where I'm at.

Rekha: And it's really terrible for venues to judge based on that, which is not
fair.

Twelve45: Yeah exactly.

Rekha: What has your experience been with venues, like when you did RnB
trivia or any spots you played regularly.

Twelve45: So RnB trivia, it's a pretty small pay out, because we're doing it on
Monday night. I was really going for the chicken sandwiches and the
drinks. I was going really to play, because it's really great to see all
these RnB nights be really be really big and people touring and stuff
like that, but it was like, to be around people who were not only
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 knowledgeable about the music, but the people behind the music, who
really made space for people. I don't feel like everybody is doing it for
hype or clout. I don't think that that is the process, but there needs to
be different spaces in the entertainment food chain that makes sense,
like small intimate moments and larger things also. Every time we come
together for RnB Trivia, it is a family, it's a friendship. People like have
wanting to commune with each other for Black month or we're doing it
quarterly this year.

Rekha: I'm going to come next time.

Twelve45: Yeah, I got you. That aspect of it. Because it really isn't about being
seen or anything else. And we have really have something special in
the way we speak about the music, because we speak about people as
real people. It's really funny. Up to date, going really old, I enjoy it
thoroughly. I think that is the most involved as far as creating a night or
a party. But I came into something that was already going, so I feel like
that's a little different.

As far as venues and stuff, I'm usually brought in by a DJ to do

something. I'm usually dealing with the DJ as far as pay out or
whatever the situation is. I'm trying if there was a venue that I went to
that I was like-oh I know one. But again, it was covering for a friend
and they had just lost their liquor license, so it was like super empty. It
was not like my favorite type of place to play anyway. Just chalk that
one up to whatever, but I feel pretty fortunate that I don't really have too
many gigs that I don't enjoy. Right now I hold down the monthly
residency at Franklin Park, and I enjoy it because they have good food,
it's a nice little payout. And people come to party. I've never had a night
there, even on the slowest of nights, people are there to enjoy
themselves. I can take it to wherever I want to take it. They appreciate
when I'm really on the nose as far as timing, and it was very current.
That's the only continuous thing I have. It fulfills all I need. I have the
whole night to myself. I'm on S9, I got turntables. I'm good. I don't need
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 much. Other than that like I've been doing some more weddings lately,
like that's the word of mouth stuff.

Rekha: Do you have your own set up for weddings?

Twelve45: Yeah. I have my own set up, so I just bring the cases out on speakers
and stuff. It's pretty cool when it happens. I don't go out and find the
weddings. The ones who lately, they've heard me play and want me at
their wedding, or like their friend. Now I'm talking to someone, and I'm
doing their friend's wedding.

Rekha: The way to get wedding is to do weddings. People at weddings are also
getting married. No, weddings are great. I mean that can be stressful
but if people are chill it can be a lot of fun.

Twelve45: And that's the thing. Every couple I've had has been a good couple.
Good people, good taste in music. Because I'm not pressed to do
weddings, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. This is a match, so I
appreciate that you like me as well. It's a really special day, and it's a
lot of money.

Rekha: Definitely a lot more money and a lot of different things. Do you get
asked to do shit for free?

Twelve45: All the time, all the time. It depends on who's asking. If that person is
making an ask and we're building something or doing something, it's
like, yes, if I'm available. That happens, even this class at Steps right
now is not a cash cow. I work with a dance company, Elisa Monte
Dance... So I'm their resident DJ, sound person. We did a collaboration
in 2017. The artistic director's name is Tiffany Rea-Fisher.

Rekha: You DJ for their class, for their performances?

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Twelve45: I have. So we did a collaborative performance, think of "Alice in
Wonderland in the club" type of thing. With modern dancers, so it was
really dope. It's called "After Dark." And I met, I actually met Tiffany at a
panel discussion for people in arts administration. So working with
Building Beats, I was like, "I've never done this before." I had
connected with someone who worked at the Apollo, Princess it was her
masters thesis.

So every project was put on this panel. There was this other gentleman
who work at Urban Arts and Tiffany was talking about her work with
Elisa Monte Dance. And I just asked a question and we ended talking
afterwards at the reception, and she invited me to see their
performance. They had their season in like a couple months or weeks
or whatever. And work was wonderful you know. I had come out to
another performance they had, and she asked me. January 2017. So I
like met her in 2016, January 2017, if I wanted to collaborate with her
on a project. I was like, "Yeah, that sounds great!" I sent her some
songs, she started creating to them, and then we talked a bit about
what she was doing why she was creating the space she saw this in. I
helped guide it in the sense of I'm the DJ and I'm here. Where would it
make sense for a DJ to be? A club. Let's make that the overall setting
and then we can take the story from there. So each song had its own
setting. The way it worked is we had a beginning song. So I do a set
before the show. So people are eating, drinking. I'm doing a set before
the show, and then the crew would indicate when the show was going
to start, and then I mix directly into the first song. So we have a first
song and a last song, and all the songs in between, I could do in
whatever order I wanted. So we had Friday and Saturday. Both shows
were different, but still the same kind of theme in there. So each setting
was like a VIP lounge, one's like the bathroom with all the women...
Think of each song is a space in a journey. So that was really great.

So from there I've been working with them. We did a show last year at
the National Gallery of Art and we're doing another show in April for
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 Easter. We're doing a theme about the moon, innovation and discovery
and stuff.

Rekha: Bring that to M.I.T. They love shit like that.

Twelve45: I've been watching a lot of YouTube videos on the universe and those
things. I love the moon, one, and then also, this one at the National
Gallery.

Rekha: Send me the information about it. I don't all the people, but I know it's
something like that would go on well here. I would love to. Tell me
about your radio show.

Twelve45: Sure. It's More than Mondays. It's is on Mondays, 10:00am to 12:00pm.
It's on New Tower Radio. It's in Brooklyn.

Rekha: So is it on actual radio?

Twelve45: It's Internet radio. And I really enjoy it. It started as a noon show, but
because of the classes I do at Steps, I had to move it up. What I really
like about it is, it is Monday, and I'm starting my week, so I really want
to help other people start their week, and what that sounds like and
what that looks like. So originally it was just a straight mix show. I would
tell friends to come in and people would end up coming in. We talked,
and I had one friend, Jillian, who lives around the corner, he would just
keep coming by. So he ended up being my co-host now. The thing
about it is, when you're DJ and especially cause I'm not vocal on the
mic, you know you are sending out messages, but people don't really
need to know who you are. We talk about what's going on day-to-day,
what we think about, all that stuff. I feel like I sent something out to
people that makes them feel not alone, so they can get started, and
shoot the shit. Sometimes you need to just talk to a friend, and just talk
about what's going on with you, what's going on with them, where it
coincides. We end up talking about McDonald's for a long time, but
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 what was great about is we went everywhere with it, to a broader point
like, "Oh, McDonald's, you're either treating yourself or you're like
punishing yourself." And I was like, yeah. That's so true!

I get to hold the tagline for the show, it is "A vibe from every tribe. A
toast to every coast." So I really have the freedom to play whatever I
want, from wherever I want. This week I had more sleep than I wanted,
so I was like, "All right. Let me get some energy." I was really up, I'm
playing Afrobeat, I'm playing Latin music, playing everything. I was
playing K-pop. I try to like really grind. I was really obsessed with the
Netherlands like a month. I was playing a lot of their artists. It's
exploration and music for me, but also kind of showing that we all have
something. There's seamless mixes, theirs transitions, we have
something in common. And you can enjoy this music that you don't
know and then I'll get some pop stuff, I'll play dance stuff. Whatever
feels good. I'm trying to have good energy.

Rekha: I have a couple more questions. One is how did you get your DJ name?

Twelve45: Yeah sure my DJ name is Twelve45, or twelve and the number forty-
five. No space. I gave that name to myself, or it came to me, I would on
my first DJ class. I was talking to a friend, I was like, "I don't know what
my DJ name will be." She was like, "You haven't even had a class yet."
I was like, "All right, fair enough. Fair enough." After my first class I was
walking around, going to meet with the same friend, and it came to me
just walking around and like it was one I wanted. What it's most
representative of is the vinyl size, the 12 inch and the 45. I really want it
to be about the music. The music is the most important part. That
comes through me. That's what I'm playing, that's what I'm
manipulating. That's what I have the honor and privilege to work well
with. So that's the main thing. And then, for me, the other number is
that Jordan wore, he wore twelve one time on his jersey that was
stolen, and forty-five when he came back from retirement. We
overcome things in life, and you have transitions, literally, in life and
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 talking about that. The difference between 12 and 45 is 33, you know,
RPM. It's a lot of little math things in there.

Rekha: Your math nerd is coming out. So here's another thing. It seems that in
your career you've been fortunate enough to like build your gigs
through community, and you approached or you learned DJing within a
community. Have you ever felt unsafe when you've been DJing?

Twelve45: No I've never been in a position where I've felt unsafe. I've seen people
do some kind of risky people, take drugs and stuff like that. But I've
never been where I don't feel good here. But I've been fortunate. I've
heard stories and I've seen people get out of order. I'm live a pretty
protected life. I fortunately don't encounter a lot of energy like that. But
I'm not saying that other DJs are playing the wrong music. The energy,
I'm really intentional about what frequencies I'm putting out with the
music and how that should affect people.

Rekha: I mean the thing is, sometimes working DJs, we've got to work and
play. We can't control the crowd. Have you played a lot with men DJs
or in other communities? And how has that experience been, or is there
a way to characterize that experience?

Twelve45: It's fine for me. I would say working with men is not the same as
working with women, but I couldn't really give you exactly what it is.
They they just generate a different environment, different frequencies.
So we're transitioning like DJ to DJ. They care if the transition is good.
But I feel like if I'm working with women, we're really like, "What you
playing? Well I got this. OK I'll put something in with this." It is more
about how to do it. How our house should be done. It's abut the people,
about the listening experience, about the vibe, continuing that.

Rekha: You think it's different with men?

Twelve45: I would say they don't care as much.

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Rekha: They don't care much about who they are playing for?

Twelve45: No, I'm trying to see if I can word it correctly. They care, but not as
much. We'll spend like two songs figuring out what the transition is.
They sometimes go, "All right, one coming in. We'll figure it out." They
don't care as much. They care if they can make it happen. But there is
a level of intention of seamlessness of keeping it going. Not all men. It's
just like they may have their scene that they're coming in with to. I feel
like a lot more come in with a couple of these cuts, or the drop or
whatever, but they may want people to know that they're not-.

Rekha: They're not trying to build for you. They're just trying to go on.

Twelve45: Mmhmm.

Rekha: Has anyone ever, while you're DJing, even from a transition, like fiddled
with your shit, fixed your E2, or put their hand, reached in?

Twelve45: Yes. Both in the good and bad way. Sometimes you may hear
something different in the monitor. It may need to be louder or stuff like
that. And then I've had people come too close the equipment, but not
really DJs. Somebody does that hand motion over this stuff, you know.
I haven't really had experiences where someone is coming and fixing
things for me that don't actually need fixing. Not in a bad way.
Something you don't know. I'm up here killing it, and they're like, "Ok,
you need to be louder. They need to hear it." Okay, great. I'm happy
with that. It's usually someone involved, sound tech, person in the
party. Not to be intrusive, but to let me continue do what I'm doing, and
focusing on that.

Rekha: Well is there anything else you'd like to add? So you do a radio show
on Monday. You still working with Building Beats.

305
Twelve45: No. I ended up being there for workshops and partnerships, a
representative. And I left this past December. Now I'm full time music
DJ, audio, sound production. Currently I'm a manager and curator of a
Culture Center in Bedstuy.

Rekha: Oh I think Reborn mentioned. Tell me more about that.

Twelve45: It's the Remy Rouge Culture Center. They're a gallery space,
community space. We're really here to help continue the dialogue in the
community, and also be an affordable space for the community to be
used for art. We've had Markus Prime, who's a illustrator, we currently
have on Passions with his work up. We have different artists come in.
We do writing workshops every first and third Sunday, yoga every
Monday. People come in and do different events here, like pop-up
shops, brunch, just different things that are connected to our
community. All of it is culture based and art driven for us.

It's been a really great experience. Ever since I started DJing I had to
give up whatever I thought I was going to do, because like nothing is
that. Just be a person who is able to provide space for people. We
have an open mic, we have a flat collective which is a non-profit artist
collective, for self-love, affirmation and preservation. One of the things
we had to do for that open mic was look for a space. And that's one of
the biggest thing for artists, trying to find space to have something to
show their work. So like for us, thousand dollars gives you a week in an
event. For some places, that's four hours of a white wall space at a
gallery that no one goes to. We have fostered a community where
people can come in and come into the space outside of the times it's
just a gallery event. So, it's been really great.

Rekha: Do you feel connected to the kind of work you do as a DJ, it seems
really integral. I mean if you could define it, and maybe it changes for
gigs, who do you think your audience ism or who your community is?

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Twelve45: That's a great question. As much as I know I'm good at what I do, part
of what building is knowing who your fan base is. Knowing who your
audience is. I really do think for people who love music that's to be
played well, to explore music to both be nostalgic and be futuristic.
People who can who have fun accessing all those places. Also like the
creative community, people who like to talk about certain things, too. I
think that's the other part of my show. What would you like to speak
about, what frequency are you, on what type of collaboration,
organizing are you doing. As far as right now, the things that I'm trying
to do with the dance company in the next couple years is going to be
people who really are about elevating the presentation of the craft and
just consistently liking to see it presented well and on different stages.
And how do we integrate it with different mediums and different artists.

It's interesting because doing the venues and the gigs and stuff like
that, I'm not a night owl. This is tough for me sometimes but I still am
DJing. I think DJing at night is important. I think the nightlife is important
and should always be a rule of the DJ to know what people respond to
in that space. But I'm trying to take other places, and onto the National
Gallery, doing a show on Sunday. During the day. Because it deserves
that. DJing deserves that elevation. It is a high art. There is a turntable
orchestra traveling now, so being able to be seen as a relevant
instrument and as musicians and stuff like that. Being a DJ at Steps is
a really big thing because the musicians are usually pianists or
drummers. Or the teacher just has their iPod. Being on call as a
musician is a great thing. Trying to do it a little differently and it seems
to worked well for me.

Rekha: What was the worst gig you ever did?

Twelve45: Oh man. Worst gig. I don't know. As I would say worst for sure was this
one time I was in a place in the Lower East Side. It's not not my scene,
it's right off center from my scene, so I can do it but it's like I have to
really think about it. And I just wasn't playing enough pop music and
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 like certain songs, and I just wasn't in their pocket. And the dude was
like, "Yo, you have to play more dance music." And the thing is top, the
way that venue is set up , where the party is happening is downstairs
and the DJ is upstairs by the lounge at the bar.

Rekha: You can't see what's happening.

Twelve45: Can't see the people I'm responding to, their energy's completely
different from what you need down there. It's usually not a problem.

Rekha: Sometimes things just are not working out that day.

Twelve45: Yeah. Exactly. And so I would say, as far as being a bad gig, that was
one. I would say one where I had the most like technical mess ups, I
was doing Essence. They have a street style festival underneath
DUMBO. So this is like a big stage. This was like a big deal, you know.
I didn't have my headphones. That was the first thing. I luckily had
some earplug headphones, but this was this big system and I'm on a
big stage and I can't hear in these fucking earbuds that well. I was
doing OK. And I was fine and but then at some point the whole system
just shut down for no reason. And I was doing CDJs, I forgot to put the
loop back on, so then when I came back on, the track ran out. There
was a lot of those things.

To be honest, I had a good time and I got good feedback. But other
than it was a tough technical gig. That was definitely the biggest stage I
had been on, so I think it helped me calibrate, like what are you trying
to do. Because if you're trying to be on the stage you have to have
different energy, because you feel it when people come on stage, how
everyone's energy and all problems come up. It's like, "Oh, ok this is
something different. This is a whole different life." It was really good for
me to do it at that time. I could do it technically, but also I was present
enough, because I'm one to be on the mic, so I had to do different
things to get people's attention. Like, don't be afraid to say "follow me",
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 just different things. So it was great. It was like, "Ok, if this is where
you're trying to be regularly, you have to want and do certain things."

Rekha: Well thank you so much for your time, and for the sharing story with
me.

Rekha: I wish I could just keep talking to people. Stories are so important here.
One thing that strikes me is when I ask people, "What was your first
gig?" People are like, "Oh wow." To remember and document your own
story, or read it back to yourself is so important. I think sometimes as
women we don't. We don't do that. I think as artists and people, it's
really important to remember that. So thank you, so much.

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Interview Transcript:

DJ Ushka

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 (Edited) Interview with DJ Ushka

Ushka: My name is Thanu Yakupitiyage and I consent to this interview.

Rekha: So what is your artist or DJ name?

Ushka: My name is Ushka.

Rekha: How did you come up with that name, what does it mean, does it have
a significance?

Ushka: My full name is Thanushka. So it's just the second half of my name.
Thanushka actually means the rhythm of music in the sky.

Rekha: Wow, that's awesome.

Thanu: I grew up kind of all over the place. I was born in Sri Lanka, in Colombo
and when I was one, my mom and I moved to Scotland, where my dad
was doing Ph.D. So I lived in Sterling, which is in between Glasgow
and Edinburgh, until I was five. That's where I learned English, and kind
of forgot Sinhalese. And then after that we moved to Thailand, to
Bangkok. Where my dad's taught still teaches at the Asian Institute of
Technology, and so I mainly grew up on university campuses, and
mainly on this campus in Bangkok. I moved back to Sri Lanka when I
was 8, for about four years. But then I finished middle school and high
school in Bangkok. I moved to the US when I was 18 for college. My
father is a biologist and he does work around agriculture and
aquaculture. He does sustainable farming practices with farmers across
South and Southeast Asia.

Rekha: What kind of music did you listen to growing up?

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Ushka: We listened to a lot of reggae because my dad was a really big fan of
Bob Marley and the Wailers so it was a bit of everything. I remember
the the CDs and tapes of his that I would always play were always Bob
Marley, Tracy Chapman, old school soul and funk stuff. So everything
from Jimmy Hendrix to Aretha Franklin. You know James Brown. Just
like a scattering. He didn't really listen to that much like Sri Lankan
music per se, but we had like Star TV, so we were also listening to a
variety, particularly Bollywood music. My father liked Black music from
the states and from the Caribbean.

Rekha: Was that the only access you had to music, was through your father?

Ushka: I mean MTV was a huge source. So like MTV and getting satellite TV
was a huge source of Western music. Thailand is a place where
everyone is so aspirationally Western, and so the radio stations that I
would listen to both when I lived in Bangkok and in Colombo, were the
radio stations where it was a lot of hip-hop that was playing. Growing
up in Colombo when I was nine or ten, like Gangsta's Paradise was like
the big thing, that everyone listened to and so I listened to it all.
Aaliyah, Destiny's Child, TLC, I grew up on American music even
though I lived in Asia.

Rekha: What attracted you to DJing, or when were you conscious of what
DJing is?

Ushka: I think when I came to college in the States. I went to Hampshire

College in Western Massachusetts. There was a person named
Damian and he was like the DJ, and he DJed all college parties. That's
where I became aware of it as an art form, but from the perspective of
being a dancer. It was like on the dance floor that I started to meet
other women of color who were dancers. The dance floor became an
important space to me, and the club space became important from the
perspective of someone who's coming and listening to music and using
my body and moving. Because my family was really strict, I couldn't go
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 out that much when I was in high school. I think like also because
Western Mass isn't that far from New York, we started to come to New
York to go to those 18 plus club nights. I remember coming to
Basement Bhangra when I was 19 maybe, or like 20.

Rekha: I want to know how you got in, it's 21 and over. Whatever. [Laughs]

Ushka: I think it was very much from the perspective of a dancer. But then I
was I was very aware from my experience as a younger person, it was
always men who were DJs, and men who got a lot of clout because
they were DJs. Because I was mainly in a hip-hop space, when I was
like 18, 19 in my early 20s. I always kind of wanted to be a DJ, but I
don't think I really thought I could until maybe I was like 22 or 23, and a
male DJ friend of mine was like, I'll teach you. I had access to
equipment through someone.

Rekha: What attracted you to it. Why were you interested in it?

Ushka: So after college I had moved to New York for a year. The economy had
crashed, so it was really hard to get a job and I needed a visa.

Rekha: What year was this, if you can remember?

Ushka: It was 2007. I graduated in '07, so it was '07, '08. Because I had come
from abroad, I needed a visa, I needed a sponsorship to be able to stay
and I wasn't going to be able to stay, because of the economy. So I had
re-applied to grad schools. Basically the year I graduated college, it felt
to me like I only really had a year left to be in the States and I would
have to leave. So I spent a lot of time in club culture. Just going, even
to places like Bembe, and I just sort of exploring music in New York
again as a dancer. Coming to places like Basement Bhangra, other
places. Going to those Sweat Parties, those queer parties. And then
when I went back to grad school in Massachusetts at UMass, and when
I was in grad school, I started to DJ on the side, just playing around
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 because I had a friend who had access to equipment. When I moved
back to New York when I was 24, 25. Even though I was here all the
time, I like officially, officially moved back in 2010. I was quite
depressed actually in 2010 because I had secured an H1 visa, had
secured a good job, but I just I wasn't satisfied. It felt like everything
that I had been working for, because I spent so much time hustling to
be able to stay, I didn't actually think about what I wanted. So I was
going out a lot, like every day of the week I was out, even though I had
a full time job. And for me, club spaces were very much about working
out what was going on for me. So I was 25 years old, where I was like,
"Iwant to help craft these spaces and create these spaces."

Rekha: What do you mean by craft the space?

Ushka: I think what I mean is intention around who the space is for, how do you
curate the music, how do also make sure that-I don't believe that any
space is truly safe. And so this idea of a safe space is kind of
complicated. But how do you make an experience for people who are
people of color, immigrants, queer folks. How do you sustain
something? That's what I mean by craft. And you know when I was 25,
I was like I was going to parties like Que Bajo. There was still few
women running spaces, like queer women running spaces. I was
mainly in these male-dominated spaces still and I just felt like there was
more room for women DJs, more intentional.

Rekha: And you weren't finding that?

Ushka: No, I had it. I liked the spaces I was in, but it always felt like there was
like one or two. For me when I was 25, there was Que Bajo and there
was Basement Bhangra. The Sweat Parties had happened on and off,
but they were like kind of dwindling by then. There were a couple of
Black house music parties, but that was it. Everything was really siloed.
It felt really siloed. I just wanted to be part of adding to something that
still felt really limited.
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Rekha: Let's go back to what you mention that in grad school you had a friend
who had access to equipment. Who was that friend, and what
equipment?

Ushka: His name was Damian and he had turntables. He DJed Serato off of
turntables. When I first started bedroom DJing, using his equipment, he
taught me how to use Serato vinyl. I had Serato on my laptop. He was
a really good teacher because before we got on Serato, he was like
you need to learn how to DJ records. And so we did that for a little bit,
and then also Serato on vinyl.

Rekha: How did you find that experience?

Ushka: I think that a lot of people, when they say that they want to DJ, it's not
easy. I don't think it was easy. It's really funny to me now when young
people are like, "Hey, I want to DJ, can you teach me?" Because they
think they can just like press sync on a CDJ, like it's all good. But the
way I started, you had to listen. All of my first experiences learning how
to DJ was learning how to listen to records, and learning how to listen
to tempo. And obviously it was easier on Serato than just doing it on
records. It took a lot of practice and I wasn't good at it in the beginning.
I felt really like deflated at times, but would always just keep coming
back to it.

Rekha: Do you have any formal musical training?

Ushka: I played keyboards when I was a kid. It's mainly actually through dance,
like I took a lot of hip-hop classes.

Rekha: So you had a lot of dance experience?

Ushka: Yeah.

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Rekha: So your first experience was learning through your friend at college,
and then, did you continue to learn, or what were the next steps in
learning.

Ushka: So when I moved back to New York in 2010, I met Beto. I met a bunch
of people because I was out all the time. I met Beto. I met Andy Gillis, I
met Geko Jones. I met you, I think before 2010 actually. I met a bunch
of people.

Rekha: I met you in Northampton

Ushka: Oh you met me in Northampton, when I was in grad school actually.

Rekha: Yes and I did a gig there.

Ushka: Yeah I remember you came to my house.

Rekha: Yeah and you made a green beans and chicken, like you whipped up
some ridiculous meal.

Ushka: Oh yeah, at 3:00 in the morning. Yeah, I do remember that. That's

funny.

Yeah I met a bunch of people, but it was actually Beto who.. I mean so
Damien, who was my friend from college, was also in New York, so I
was continuing to play around with Damien, and then Beto started to
also teach me. But Beto used Traktor, which was a different kind of DJ
software. Because I was also hanging out with him, I also downloaded
Traktor. So when I first started playing people's house parties, I was
initially doing Serato.

Rekha: And he was using Traktor with a controller?

Ushka: He was using Traktor with a soundcard. He was just using his laptop.
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Rekha: Self-contained in a laptop using Traktor.

Ushka: Yeah. But he's DJed for20 years. He started as a vinyl DJ. He just
slowly was like, "This is like easy, this is what I want to use." So he had
been throwing this party iBomba with his friend Mike. Basically the way
in which I got into nightlife is I started being a promoter for folks. So II
was promoting for Que Bajo, I think I promoted once for Basement
Bhangra.

Rekha: I think you promoted for our sound clashes.

Ushka: Yes. And then I promoted for iBomba, and because iBomba was more
like small party, it was on a Monday night, it didn't have as much clout,
and so it was an easier space to learn and fuck up and get better. And
that was at Bembe.

Rekha: Which is like the place for everyone's first gig.

Ushka: Everyone's first gig. I do not enter Bembe now, because of the amount
of fights I've had with the bartenders and the owners. Basically I first
promoted the party for a little bit. I think it was like December 2011, 1
DJed my first gig at Bembe.

Rekha: So tell me about the first gig. What do you remember about the first
gig? Was it at 205? Was it that gig at Glasslands?

Ushka: That was one of my first gig. So my first gig was December 2011 at
Bembe, and one of my second big gigs was that gig Glasslands.

Rekha: So tell me about the first gig

Ushka: I was so nervous. And literally had practiced, like I had my little playlist
that I had memorized and like transitions that I had memorized, and I
was nervous because at that point I knew DJs. DJs were my friends. I
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 was promoting for DJs. So people like Uproot Andy and like whoever
else. They were coming to my first gig and to have people in the room
who were established, good DJs coming to my silly first gig, I felt super
nervous because I wanted them to think that I was a good DJ. The
people that I had looked up to.

Rekha: Those DJs at Bembe were all men, that you remember?

Ushka: There were all men. Yeah it was nerve racking. I'm an organizer too so
a lot from like the organizing communities came out for me. It was
pretty packed and it was very sweet. There was a lot of people who
didn't care about a transition. I'm the one who cared, and I cared
because other people I know, who listen to music like that, where there.

Rekha: Explain to me what a transition is.

Ushka: How you flow from one song to another, where you're being conscious
of the BPM and how songs like fit together, basically. When I say
transition, as a DJ you're not just playing like one song after the other in
succession. You're blending music, and that's what I mean by
transition. So how do you blend music without fucking up a flow. I think
about it from the perspective of a dancer because when I was just
dancing, you can always tell if something was a little bit off, or the
tempo is off. In DJing you have to keep the flow. Because for me it's
also about how you can dance uninterrupted.

Rekha: In the actual moment of spinning, do you scratch? What other

techniques do you utilize?

Ushka: I do not scratch the way a hip-hop DJ would scratch on vinyl. I use
CDJs with my USB stick. So prep things on on Rekordbox ahead of
time.

Rekha: You use Rekordbox to DJ?

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Ushka: Yeah. I'll spin the track sometimes, not just in transitioning-

Rekha: You mean back spin?

Ushka: Mmhmm, back spin, and because I play across genres I really see my
DJ practice is one of genre blending, and I'm very interested in what I
call migrant music. I play everything from like Afro beats to Soca to
dancehall. I play maybe like less South Asian music but certainly Desi
music as well, and club music from across communities of color in the
States. So sometimes it's difficult when you're sustaining a set that has
multiple kinds of genres, like you have to employs other techniques.
Transitions are not very simple, and so like back spinning sometimes is
important to be able to shift from one genre to the next. I have DJed
now since 2011. Because Beto was using Traktor, like internal mode,
even though I initially started when I was practicing doing Serato with
turntables, I then shifted to doing just Traktor, internal mode, and then
Traktor with a controller, and then I could shift, like I could also do
Serato with turntables, but it just became too many things that I was
trying to do. So then I stuck with Traktor and a controller, and then now
everything I've transitioned to Rekordbox, and I'm just doing Rekordbox
with USB.

Rekha: So in terms of techniques, is there stuff you do on the fly, like looping,
or sampling, or any of that kind of stuff?

Thanu: Yeah so I loop a lot. I do a lot of looping, I do a lot of back spinning.

Sometimes I trigger other sounds.

Rekha: So those are sounds pre-sampled, set in?

Ushka: Pre sampled.

Rekha: But if you are using CDJs and USB sticks how are those sounds
saved?
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Ushka: I have a folder for samples.

Rekha: Oh so one thing's playing and you are dropping in samples.

Ushka: Yeah. Yep exactly.

Rekha: There's no external submixer.

Ushka: You can.

Rekha: Oh, I am talking about what you do.

Ushka: No, I don't do that.

Rekha: I am asking these questions to get a sense of what happens in the

moment.

Ushka: And for me it's also shifted over time, for example when I am using a
Traktor controller, you can basically program those pre-samples, so
you can basically press a button to trigger the sample. I mean honestly
because I don't own CDJs, they're so expensive, there's things about it
I'm still learning.

Rekha: So you don't own CDJs at home.

Ushka: Yeah. Or I go to a club to practice. I go to C'mon Everybody.

Rekha: So in terms of artistic discipline, do you consider yourself DJ?

Ushka: Yeah.Yeah.

Rekha: Do you practice any other art?

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Thanu: I'm trying to produce more. A lot of my efforts in production are in
collaboration with someone. So like other media, I use Ableton now.
I've used Logic some. In college I was a video editor so I have an
understanding of like programs like Final Cut. A lot of where I'm
transitioning my work is from being less of a DJ who plays out, and
more or someone who's producing podcasts, producing experimental
music within like museum-type situations. So for example Atropolis and
I produced a track for Mel Chin's exhibit at the Queens Museum this
year. Basically the task was to take archival sounds of the subway and
make it into a track. I like things like that, it's more experimental so I've
been doing more production like that.

Rekha: So would you consider that DJ work?

Ushka: I would consider that production. I would say that it's an extension of
my DJ practice.

Rekha: Do you record sets at home, without an audience?

Ushka: Yeah, I put out mixes. I just did this mix for Fader. For me making a mix
is an art project in and of itself. You can tell a whole story, and you
have a little bit more time to think about it. And so it's a whole a
research process, like what tracks are you going to put on this mix,
who's producing what. When I'm making a mix it's like an essay.

When I'm in the club, you have to think about audience, and you have
to think about vibe. In the club I may have a sense. A lot of people who
aren't DJs will be like, "Well what's your first song." I get that. "What do
you know how to plan." I'm like, "You don't, you have to sort of feel the
vibe." So I always get that at least an hour before my set because you
have to be able to hear what that person before you has been playing,
what people in the room are doing in order to like play your sound. And
I play a lot of stuff that I like, but I think I play like a dancer.

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Rekha: What does that mean, I play like a dancer?

Ushka: I play stuff that I wanna dance to. I play a lot of bass music. For
example, I always fixate on the two or three people who I can tell are
like really good dancers. A lot of my flow is based on their flow,
because I can see what they're into, and it feeds my energy. A lot of my
sets are impromptu I'm basically deciding in the moment what to play.

Rekha: How do you prep for a gig?

Ushka: Well now because I use Rekordbox, it's like a whole process. I have my
like stock folders based on genre.

Rekha: So one method of organization is a genre.

Ushka: Yes, but I personally like to do it per gig, also. Depending on what the
gig is. So for example, tonight I'm DJing a Middle Eastern and Arab
party, and so even if I drop some of the stuff that I normally DJ, I know
that I have to DJ some Middle Eastern and Arab tunes. My prep is
based also on the vibe of the particular party. It means sorting, it means
queuing. Like in Rekordbox you have to put your queues in. I just put in
my cues ahead of time, and then you have to like analyze stuff and
make sure to put it on the USB.

Rekha: Each track has to be analyzed?

Ushka: Yeah I mean analyzing of a track doesn't take long. If you create a
playlist or a folder of 50 songs and you put it queue points for those
songs, it takes Rekordbox sometimes like 15 to 20 minutes to get it all
on the USB, to render it, basically.

Rekha: How much time would say you spend in your art practice not
performing?

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Ushka: Let's say you get booked for a guest set. A guest set is usually an hour
and usually if I'm playing my own party, I'm DJing maybe two hours.
Otherwise it's an hour, unless it's some special gig where maybe it's
like three, four hours. I'm not one of those DJs who does six, seven
hour gigs. I'm just not. For an hour gig, I've spent like three to four
hours prepping, putting in cue points, and then also the process of
acquiring music is a constant process. That happens every week. That
happens when you're out and you hear something and you're like, oh
what's that.

Rekha: Do you go to listen to other DJs a lot?

Ushka: Yeah maybe less now, but yes. There's been a depreciation. [Laughs] I
go out and listen to the shows a lot. I'm also always on the internet, like
SoundCloud listening to other people's mixes. BBC One Radio.

Rekha: Who would say is your primary audience if you could characterize that?

Ushka: I think my audience is really eclectic. Because what I play is really

eclectic. I think so iBomba, which is the party that I run, the audience is
super mixed, it's like Caribbean folks, Latino folks, South Asian folks.
It's like young Brooklyn people between the ages of like 23 and 42.

Rekha: How do you interact with your audience and in what way, outside of
deploying music?

Thanu: While I'm DJing, people are always invited to come dance on stage.
And so people are dancing onstage, I'm definitely interacting with
people. I hate when people touch DJ booth and it's just hard, you know,
things start skipping and people are like dancing on the booth. So I
need a little bit of distance.

Rekha: Interaction for you means, inviting dancers into your space? Do you
yourself use your body in any way?
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Ushka: I feel like for me, other dancers help me loosen up and not just be
looking at the equipment. It's more like me interacting with other people
dancing.

Rekha: What about verbal interaction?

Ushka: I have started to do more mic stuff but during my set I will usually have
someone else be the hype person and I won't necessarily get on the
mic. Sometimes at iBomba, if it's like major gigs like something a
Brooklyn Museum, I'll get on the mic. Or I will be the hype person for
like Beto, he's on. But during my set itself I don't usually get on the mic.

Rekha: How often do you DJ with other people. Are there differences you feel
based on gender?

Ushka: Yeah. I mean see this is a thing. A lot of the people who initially taught
me how to DJ and brought me into DJ spaces were men, straight men.
And I don't know what it was, maybe it was a guilt thing for them,
wanting to support a woman in doing that. I think like femme women
who fit a certain criteria of attractiveness is also one of the reasons why
some men are down teaching a woman how to DJ, like incomplete
recognition of that. But I also felt because there were so few women
and so few queer folks, it felt like it was hard to access other folks to
support because it's a weird competitive environment. My access very
much was because of men. The one cis man that I DJ with frequently is
Beto because we run iBomba together, but otherwise I'm DJing mainly
with queer people, including queer men, but queer women, trans
women. So outside of Beto, it's mainly queer people and it's mainly
queer women.

Rekha: Well yeah. Is this your full-time profession?

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Ushka: No. So I am the full-time communications director at a climate justice
organization right now. And that's fairly new, that's the last year and a
half. But before that I was doing media and communications for an
immigrant rights organization.

Rekha: Have you ever felt unsafe?

Thanu: Yes, particular at Bembe. There when I'd be Ding where straight cis
men would come and touch my hips, from the back or like try to grind
me.

Rekha: While you're DJing?

Ushka: Yeah there was a lot of men coming up to the DJ booth and looking at
the track and being like, "How do you know this song?" Just like a lot of
shock. Like a lot of shock seeing a woman DJing. And then my sets
were like, I'll play like a tune, and then I'll shift to dancehall, then I'll shift
to Bhangra. Sometimes it's positive sometimes, sometimes it's people
feel some sort of a connection with home, and then other times it's like,
"How do you know this? Like how do you know that song?" People
wanting to have like a full on conversation. It's a lot of men. I think was
that was Bembe's vibe, but it's also the vibe of a lot of venues that just
are more straight and Icatere to men, or have that thing where ladies
get in free, and then men have to pay. It happens a lot of that at venues
like that.

Rekha: So do you feel part of a DJ community?

Thanu: Yes.

Rekha: How would you define that community?

Thanu: I think that over the last seven years, there's more DJs and there's
more queer people and there's more women DJing. I know it must be a
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 trip for you in particular given that there was nobody, but even when I
think about me starting to DJ in 2011.

It's so funny, today, the hottest, biggest, party in Brooklyn, potentially

New York, is Papi Juice. Papi Juice like the hot queer party. Oscar Nfi
who's like one of the founders, Oscar's first DJ set was with me at
Azucar, where he opened for me and he didn't know how to plug in his
headphones and didn't know the right IRCA cables and I had to plug it
in for him, you know. All that is to say that that's how this DJ community
has come about. It's people who, their first gigs, myself included, we
didn't know what we were doing.

Azucar, which is a space that no longer exists, that was a queer Latino
party. There have been on and off other sorts of queer parties that have
popped up, now there is like much more of a community than there
was.

Rekha: Is it supportive?

Thanu: It depends, like I would say yes it's supportive, and also right now in the
media landscape, because like media is always looking for the hot, next
queer thing, it's competitive. And people also think it's easy. So for
example, a couple of months ago, a queer young person I know texted
me, she's like, "Hey, do you think you could teach me how to DJ.
Because I want to do this gig a month. Do you think I could charge 200
dollars for an hour." I was like, "I don't have capacity to help teach
someone." And I asked them, "Why do you want to DJ? And they
couldn't answer. And I was like, honestly, before you started doing gigs,
you need to know why you want to DJ." And I was like, "Do you collect
music like? Where do you get your music from? Where do you look for
inspiration? Before you start to DJ, talk to people, learn from other
people's practices, before being like, 'I want to DJ because I want to
make an easy 200 dollars.'

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Rekha: Was that their motivation initially?

Ushka: The initial text, it seemed like it.

Ushka: This is one of the things that is a constant critique. Suddenly, lafter
2011, particularly 2013 onwards, there was a lot more queer and
women DJs. And then a lot of men I would hear be like, "Well there's
more women DJs because it's easier to DJ." That was a lot of what
people would say, like you could just hit sync and then you consider
yourself a DJ.

Rekha: Do you think that is true? No I don't.

Ushka: No I don't. There is a conversation to be had about accessibility. I do

think that certain things became a little bit more accessible, and I think
that's ok. And I think that there's still a craft. Like for me, there's a craft
around how you create a space, how you sustain a party, how you
sustain a vibe with music in a way where you're not just hitting play.

Rekha: How do you create a space? What does that mean to create a space?
Musically, technique-wise, in the practice.

Ushka: This is a hard question! I think bass-heavy music is a huge part of how I
create a space. I do it very much for people who like to dance. For me
what gives me joy is actually seeing people starting to move. For
example, I just DJed Papi Juice just two weeks ago and I was in a
smaller room, there was not really that many people on the dance floor
because it was too early, and then I had the set at like 12 or 12:30. And
I had the opportunity to fill the space. The way in which you attract
people to dance is by playing a set that makes people nostalgic, but
and also bringing in new beats. Because I DJ all sorts of music, just like
having a sense of who's in the room.

Rekha: So it's curating. Or it's the programming part.

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Ushka: Yeah it's a curation of music.

Rekha: You are attracting people by what you play.

Ushka: Yes, yes.

Rekha: How do you get your gigs?

Ushka: I handle my own bookings. I got my gigs based on word of mouth. I've
put out some mixes that have done really well, because they've been
featured on magazines or whatever, I get... And the Internet's also a
different beast even from like 2011. There's also the way in which you
like curate a self-image on places like Instagram.

Rekha: What does that mean, to curate a self-image?

Ushka: In any successful business or career, including DJing it's like how you
market yourself.

Rekha: So what happened with that girl? You just said you don't have time, go
do your homework?

Ushka: Yeah I was like, "Tell me what your what your interests are musically."
And she was like, "I don't know," and I was like, "I'm happy to have
coffee with you. I'm happy to show you some things, but you should
think about what it is that you want out of out of a DJ practice." I'm sure
she just dropped off because one day she was sitting around, and it
was something she had to do, so she never got back to me.
But I there have been times when people have asked me to teach them
how to DJ, and I'm totally open to that. Like I've opened up C'mon
Everybody on an afternoon. And had people to learn how to use CDJs.
I think that's important, and a lot of people don't do that. I think now the
Brooklyn culture in particular is shifting to words like, "Oh if you don't
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 you use CDJs, you're not..." I feel like things come in trends, and right
now the trend is CDJs.

Rekha: CDJs, like you have to be using USB sticks

Ushka: I've seen DJ's like Venus and UNIIQU3 post these memes about, "If
you use vinyl, then you're basically a grandpa. If you use Serato with
like vinyl, then you're still old school. If you use Traktor, you're a
student..."

Rekha: So technological judgement is rampant.

Ushka: Exactly. There's a lot of technological judgment. But in Brooklyn I feel

like the technological judgment is around CDJs, and for the longest
time I didn't use CDJs, and I saw that the number of gigs I got started
to dwindle, because I didn't use CDJs.

Rekha: Why would they dwindle, you mean you would say, "I don't use CDJs, I
can't do the gig"? Or would you say, "Iwill bring my controller"?

Ushka: Yeah. Or people will see from photos that you don't use CDJs.

Rekha: And they don't book you?

Ushka: Yeah, that's been my experience. I mean some people don't, some
people do. I took a long time getting on CDJs just because I'm really
disorganized with my music and it requires that you actually are really
organized.

Rekha: Sounds like a nightmare.

Ushka: It is kind of a nightmare.

Rekha: I also find it limiting. I like to see all my shit.

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Ushka: And I also have a really bad memory. So you're like sitting there
racking your brain because you're literally scrolling through songs. It's
awful. I've had a lot of people being like, "Hey I'm using this controller
but I want to use CDJs, do you have access."

Rekha: What kind of people ask you?

Ushka: Other DJs, like women.

Rekha: Do straight men ever ask you for advice?

Ushka: No, no. Never.

Rekha: Do you turn down any gigs?

Ushka: I turn down weddings. I just don't want to do that. I turned down more
house party type situations. I just don't have time. I also have a full-time
job. I have to be selective about what I do now.

Rekha: Do you get asked to do things for free?

Ushka: I used to. Yes. I do not do things for free.

Ushka: Do you get asked?

Ushka: The last time I got asked was by a non-profit. About six months ago. I
said if you can't at least pay for a car for me there and back, then I can't
do it. And they were like, "We have a limited budget." And I was like,
"Well I'm sorry."

Rekha: They didn't even offer you fucking car service. No, fuck that shit.
Roxanne Gay just tweeted, she's sick of organizations asking her to
come and not taking care of her flight accommodations.

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Ushka: And it was an immigrant rights organization. A lot of the places where I
get asked to DJ for free, it's because people have this idea that I'm an
immigrant rights organizer, so I'm passionate about this and I'll do it for
free.

Rekha: Do you think its influenced by that fact that they know you have a day
job too?

Ushka: I mean it could be. Nobody's said that to me explicitly. I think it's
partially because they're like, "She's like known within the organizing
scene and she cares about this, maybe she'll do it for free." I'm very
strict about it. I'll basically e-mail people and be like, "Hey this is like
one of the reasons why I'm not going to do this for free, because all
artists should get paid. And you're an organization that has a budget."

Rekha: Do they say things like, can you recommend someone?

Ushka: Yes. I say that unless you have a budget to pay them, I'm not
recommending anyone. Or people will be like, "Oh well we'll put you on
the on the screen and you'll have exposure," and I'm like, "I don't need
your exposure."

Rekha: How important is the financial part of the interaction when you DJ?

Ushka: It's a profession, like it's not my full time profession, but I think we need
to be super professional about it. In the past when I initially started, I
was a little bit more like, yeah pay me whatever. It gives off the
impression that you don't really care, so other people don't have to
care. And so I'm very, very clear. And I don't think I charge that much
for an hour. If someone's like how much is an hour, I'll be like, it's 300
and go from there, and do some negotiating. It depends, if it's a
corporate gig, I'm charging a lot. If it's an organization, I'm charging a
certain amount. I am also making some assessments, so it's not the

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 first thing that I'm thinking about is money, and also I'm not a full time
DJ. I have health insurance. I have a full-time job.

But I'm also interacting in the interface with people who are full-time
DJs, and I don't want to lower my standards because if I lower my
standards, I'm going it for everyone.

Rekha: That's a very important consideration. Anything else you want to add?

Ushka: It's so exhausting. You know, just like life! DJing is so tiring. I started
DJing when I was 25. I'm 33, and I'm just tired. The primetime spot is
around 1, let's say. Yeah, New York timing. So often times I'm booked
for 1 amslots, 2am slots, and it's just hard now. It's hard to stay up until
then. when I get slotted for like 11:30 or 12, I'm like so happy about it
sometimes.

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 Interview Transcript:

DJ Roundtable
with
DJ Rekha, Rimarkable, DJ Selly, and Zeemuffin

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 (Edited) DJ Roundtable with DJ Rekha, Rimarkable, DJ Selly, and Zeemuffin

Rekha: Thank you all so much for being here on a very rainy Tuesday in New
York. Election Day. Our lives will change today in one way or another.
[Laughs]

Selly: It's great to be here.

Rekha: I really appreciate it. Can't say it enough. So, I will stop saying it.

Zainab: We appreciate you.

Rimarkable: My pleasure.

Rekha: Thank you. Forgive my slight inexperience with this, bear with me. I'm
glad it's all you guys. I feel very comfortable with you. I've known you
for several years. You, the least longest. You're probably the youngest.
So let's just do a go around and say your name. We'll start with start
with you.

Rimarkable: I am Rimarkable. I'm a DJ, producer, performer, curator, all things art.

Zainab: I am Zainab or Zeemuffin. I'm also a DJ, artist, writer, lover of all things
music and art and culture.

Selly: I'm Selly. I'm a DJ, curator of sound, and lover of music.

Rekha: I am Rekha. I'm a DJ and many things. Right now I'm a grad student,
trying to get this paper.

Zainab: Flex a little bit.

Selly: Big tings are gwan!

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Rekha: You know, change the system from the inside, or create space for more
voice and different voices.

So the nature of this project is I'm very interested in what people

actually do when they DJ. The actual experience of performance of in
the moment. But since I have all of you guys here in this moment, we'll
ask some questions, hopefully it'll be a free flowing conversation, feel
free to jump in. So take a breath.

All right so let's just let's watch the clip.

Selly: I felt like I saw this live performance. I remember the video, it freaked
me out for a really long time.

Rimarkable: This was an award show or something.

Zainab: This is creepy.

Rekha: 80s was creepy. We had Michael Jackson doing Thriller. Scared the
beejezus out of me.

Selly: Bring back the keytar.

Zainab: Who's that?

Rekha: That's a good question. That's DMT.

Rekha: Do you know the song?

Zainab: No.

Rimarkable: Yeah! All right!

Rekha: Well we'll play a little longer (Rock It Video Plays in background).
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Zainab: This is a trip.

Rekha: Hold up, can you turn up a little, Raj?

So you remember seeing this?

Rimarkable: I do remember seeing this. It was a huge deal. For one, what I can
understand is it was kind of the morphing, or the acceptance, of hip-hop
and being accepted by other genres as being a thing. Like Herbie
Hancock, legendary jazz fusion producer and performer. And jazz, that
that culture, that genre, was joining forces with hip-hop, and hip-hop
was huge. Hip hop burst on the scene. It was like KAPOW. And I was a
little kid and I understood that, you know.

Rekha: Do you remember seeing or have you seen that?

Selly: No I haven't seen this live performance but I do remember MTV very
vividly, and I remember how things like this, watching music became
such a thing. It wasn't just about listening to it anymore. We had the
advent of video, and then with video came merging of different genres
of music, like you had the insanity of Run DMC and Aerosmith coming
together on Walk This Way. You had Herbie Hancock, you had Chaka
Khan.

Rekha: Let Me Rock You.

Selly: Exactly with Melle Mel and furious and all of those guys. You started to
watch all of these artists like, "Oh shit, hip-hop is this thing that we need
to pull into our culture a little bit." And even just last night, I was
listening to BGO and Rhonda Hamilton couldn't remember the name of
the RH factor, because all weekend they'd been featuring the music of
Roy Hargrove, because of his passing. But she was trying to recall the
name of it ,and she was saying that it was so instrumental in the way
she listened to jazz and the way jazz kind of fused with hip-hop. And I
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 mean it's similar, it's not exactly the same thing that you're presenting
here. But I do remember listening to that album very much and listening
to Q-tip and Erykah Badu flow over Roy Hargroves's grows beautiful
trumpet sets and things like that, and it just moves you you know. It's
kind of a natural progression of music to fuse. Because otherwise you
just have all of these pocketed genres, and you have people who are
very exclusive to these genres. When you merge music, you merge
culture, you merge people, and it's so powerful, what music does in
terms of bringing people to the foreground who had not been there at
all in the past So yes I remember Rock It the video, and I remember as
(Rimarkable) said, hip-hop now becoming accepted as a part and
normalized into pop culture, tt was a good thing, and some of us say
that it wasn't such a good thing. And all of it's debatable, but the
progression still happened nonetheless and it's still happening.

Rekha: So I showed that because that was arguably the first presentation of a
DJ on TV.

Zainab: Can I contest that. I feel like it was Blondie with Fab Five Freddy,
Rapture.

Rekha: Arguably that was 1980. That's the first time you see you a scratching
DJ. And that video-

Zainab: It was fake DJing.

Rekha: It's fake.

Zainab: Yes I remember that. But I do remember it being the first time they
showed.

Rekha: Sure. I used to use that video in class all the time. I just remember
seeing that as a kid and being like, wow.

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 And you remember it too. So I guess the question I have for you guys
is, what is the first time you remember seeing a DJ. Do you remember
seeing a DJ? Do you remember your first time seeing a DJ, whether it
was on TV or live or somebody actually manipulating or playing music?

Zainab: First time?

Rimarkable: It absolutely was in examples like this one, and MTV, like you were
saying or videos. It actually was through hip-hop, and it became like a
thing.

Rekha: Do you remember specifically, like identifying or seeing DJs.

Rimarkable: I don't remember when scratching became popular, it being an art form,
and it became like the connotation of what a DJ was. And I know that
followed me until when I started DJing. And I wasn't a hip-hop DJ. I was
a woman DJ coming out and it was like, "Wow you don't scratch," or
"You don't do all this turntablism, so you must not be a DJ." So that
kind of thing went on. Scratching or turntableism had a direct impact on
the connotation of what a DJ was.

Rekha: Do you remember the first time?

Zainab: It was definitely not on television. My first intro to hip-hop was Tribe
(Called Quest). I'm a 90s baby so I never really like saw Tribe on TV
per se. It was mostly like 50 Cent and G-Unit, that type of stuff. That
was what I grew up on, and like Pharrell, so that was like my
introduction to hip-hop, was like really that stuff. Even though I went
back and listened to like De La, Tribe, those were like the first... When I
first heard Tribe, I was like, "Oh wow, this is hip-hop."

But when I actually first saw a DJ, wasn't really until I went to college
and I started going out and stuff. The DJ was always just like person I
wouldn't really see. I remember when DJ AM became a thing. He was
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 always kind of behind the scenes and then when he kind of blew up, he
was always hidden and you couldn't see him behind digging his crates
and doing that whole thing. And then with him, he kind of pushed the
DJ forward, and I remember in college, finally like going to a club and
physically seeing the person in the booth. And then that was the first
time I was like, oh! It was some random DJ at some random bar, I went
out with friends. It was a guy, of course it was a guy. At that point I was
like, oh, this is what they do. And I remember being that annoying girl
that asks for a request.

Rekha: Now you know!

Zainab: I like hate myself for doing that. But that was the first time I saw
someone controlling a room and I almost had this sense of envy, like
yo, I could do that, or like, I want to do that. I want to provide the vibe or
the feeling that's in here. I feel like I could do a good job.

Rekha: When you saw that, you said, "I want to do that?" You thought, maybe I
want to do that?

Zainab: Yeah, music has always been something that I've... it's never been
something that my family has loved, it's just something I've discovered
on my own. I would sit in my room in my basement. iTunes is really like
the way I used to find music. I would just go in these holes and find
things. But I grew up playing viola, drums. I just played instruments but
I never really found a way to get into music that was the right way of
expressing it to me, because I was forced to play viola. Drums I didn't
really get serious about. I was like, "I don't want to be a band or
anything!" So when I saw someone DJing for the first time I was like,
"Oh I'm someone who has such a wide taste in music. I love so many
different types of music. I've grown up on so much different stuff. So for
me that was the first option to do something in music to fully express
my love for all the different genres and styles that I've learned about
over the last whatever years.
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Rekha: How about you Selly. The first time you saw a DJ, or like the moment
where you said, oh!

Rimarkable; Selly was born with a turntable!

Selly: So it's funny. Ok. So there are two answers to that question. I've been
playing records since I was probably 6. And, you know, go put the
record on the turntable blah blah. It was just something that I did at
home. Played music for dinners, for Saturday, whatever it was. I just
played the music but I didn't really know that that had a name. A little
bit later on, let's say 9, 10, or whatever. I'm from Queens originally, so
DJing is just part of the culture, and it was the culture.

Rekha: What part of Queens are you from?

Selly: Hollis, Close to Hollis. So I saw LL, I saw Run DMC, I saw the Lost
Boys, I saw Tribe. All those guys were from the neighborhood.

Rekha: I knew someone, who knew someone, who dated LL Cool J.

Selly: Well I used to see him. I used to work at McDonald's as a child. He'd
come in for his chocolate shake all the time, sidebar, with his boombox,
looking just like LL Cool J on Jamaica Avenue.

Rekha: I went to Fresh Fest too.

Selly: That was entertainment for us. That was entertainment for us because
it wasn't the most exciting place to grow up, so we created our own bit
of fun, and fun was involved in block parties. So if you didn't have a
sound system and you had to come with a huge ass sound system.
You had to come with the turntables, that was part of the culture. So as
we started throwing parties, we would get our friends who basically had
that equipment, and we would have these notorious basement parties
340
 all over, wherever we could hijack somebody's house. The parents
would leave and then we had a big yard and then it would turn into a
situation where the cops would be there... Don't ask me for the years!
You about to ask me for the years?

Rekha: No, I don't know, not necessary. When you say we, who's the we?.

Selly: The "we" are me and my friends. So we actually had a crew. So back in
that back in that time, you just ran with crews. So we created our own
crew. There were other crews, and crews were rivals in terms of music.
It wasn't anything else.

Rekha: Was it all women, was it guys and girls?

Selly: We had the Nasty Girls Crew, which was named after the actual Nasty
Girls. And that was my first situation where I was involved with a crew.
Once you had a crew, you had to have music, and you had to to
present good parties. That was part of being a crew.

Rekha: So throwing and curating parties was part of it. Was it almost like you
had to have the puff letter shirt.

Selly: Yeah, we had those. We had all that stuff. I wish kept mine, that would
have been some nice nostalgia.

Rekha: So you went from like being in a crew, playing records.

Selly: Yeah, I played records for the family. It's just something you do. I still
have the first records that were given to me. I still have the first records
that I went to the store and bought. But then what happened was the
record collector became slightly obsessive. And when I would go to my
friends' parties at their homes, before the whole big crew thing, I'd bring
my stack of records. And I would sit there in the corner and I'd put the

341
 records on and people would dance. So I didn't really know what that
was called.

Rekha: When was your first gig?

Zainab: [Laughs] That disaster!.

Rekha: Oh, I want to hear it! I could tell you my first gig story, it's hilarious.

Selly: My first paid gig? Or when my first thing when I played in a party?

Rekha: However you want to define it.

Selly: I would play parties all the time and not get paid for them.

Rekha: When did you become a DJ? I'm trying to find if there's that moment
from being casual to playing parties or playing music.

Selly: I had a boyfriend in high school and he said, "You should DJ,
professionally," and I was like, "That's silly, that's ridiculous."

Rekha: Why?

Selly: Because I never looked at it as something that I could do and sustain

my life from. So to me it was almost laughable to think that. I didn't
know the different levels that you could be on as a DJ. There's so many
different platforms that you can entertain as a DJ. So for me that wasn't
the route I was trying to go on. I always view myself first as a music
appreciator. I love any range of anything, so I was like, "I'm just
messing around. I'm headed to college. I've got this career lined up.
I've got stuff I need to do."

Rekha: Right.

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Selly: So it didn't occur to me that that could be not only a living, but a lifestyle
and a way of being and it just turned out that it was that.

Rekha: So then how did you...?

Selly: People would approach me. They'd be like, you have to play. You have
to go out and play.

Rekha: And so how did you go from playing one turntable to like, did somebody
show you? How did you have access to equipment?

Selly: I worked in a record store. Go figure, I put myself through college

working in a record store. I worked at the Wiz, I worked at Tower.

Rekha: You worked at Tower on West 4th Street? We must have been in there
at the same time.

Selly: Probably. I worked at some of those rinky dink record stores on the
Lower East Side briefly. But I started to amass a whole bunch of music.
It was kind of ridiculous. So I started with CDJs is actually.

Rekha: Ok.

Selly: Even though I grew up with a turntable in my house, I was like nah, this
is the CDJ age. So I started mixing with CDs. And then, I reverted to
vinyl.

Rekha: Which CDs? Do you remember the model.

Selly: I had no idea.

Rekha: Two CDs in a mixer? And did you have speakers as well?

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Selly: Yep. I had my own system and so I was able to kind of be mobile with
that around the neighborhood. That was fun. At one point a friend
approached me and said, I'm starting a party and you're the DJ. And so
that's how that DJ Selly person really kind of transitioned into nightclub
culture, and then from then on, I just kept getting more and more work.
And then that's it. It just never really stopped. So I'm still a nightclub
person.

Rekha: I am too, except when I'm doing these daybreaker parties.

Rekha: Do you remember your first gig? Maybe it's not an obvious starting
point.

Rimarkable: My first paid gig, I think it was a wedding. Honestly. I started off DJing
by working for a mobile DJ company. Like Selly, I started off with
experience with vinyl. But I also started off using CDJs because that
was the latest technology, and I was super excited about that
technology. I'm a nerd like that. I love tech, any tech this and that, I
want the next shit, I'm on top of it. But I do remember the model, it was
a Denon 2000.

Rekha: The two trays.

Rimarkable: And it would be in a cube and the rack at the top would be the controls,
and the bottom would be the trays that would come out.

Rekha: Nice big green button. Red button and a blue button, for the pitch taking
control.

Rimarkable: Pitch control.

Rekha: That's right. And like a nice digital display. Little bit of orange.

Rimarkable: And a little jog wheel. And if you had like 2500...
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Rekha: Oh that was too expensive.

Rimarkable: It was way too expensive. 2500 had like a vocal remover.

Rekha: Yes. It had voice reducer.

Rimarkable: Voice reducer on it. So you could be fancy. I had ideas like that in my
head, like "damn! I want to mix like this!" But anyway, the wedding was
dope. I did a ton of weddings back then. That's how I paid my way
through college, actually DJing, doing all these private parties.

Rekha: So who taught you to use the equipment?

Rimarkable: There was a staff member, like the senior DJ on the staff, her name is
Diana.

Rekha: She was a woman.

Rimarkable: Yeah. We were the only two women in the company.

Rekha: How many people in the company?

Rimarkable: There was about 10 DJs on the roster. But also hardly any women DJs
in the industry or in our area, in the Detroit area. It was illuminating to
come up at that time, when being a woman was not fashionable. I really
got some you know good chops. I don't want to drift too far away from
the question.

Rekha: Wedding DJing will make you super strong.

Rimarkable: It makes you super strong. And I'm grateful for those times because I
really learned how to read a crowd. I learned how to access all the

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 different genres I know, and how to bring it to light and how to make
people dance.

Rekha: Wedding DJ for Desi people really teaches you something.

Zainab: That's another story.

Rekha: They don't give two shits. They're like, "Play something fast good. What
is this? When party starting again?"

Rimarkable: And I did a couple back in the day. And I love those parts, because
they're like, "It's not loud enough. Turn it up."

Zainab: So true.

Rimarkable: I mean its blaring. They're like, "Louder!"

Rekha: What about you, Zainab. What's your first gig you saw?

Zainab: I'm just dead at this Indian wedding thing because I've done it few you
know and it's so true. First gig was at now defunct Westway. I know the
second part of this was how did you learn. So after I graduated college
and I got a job in investment banking, as one brown person. I was like,
Ok, I'm making all this money. Let me try to learn how to DJ. Like
actually learn through something. There was this school which also
doesn't exist anymore. DubSpot. Robyn was my teacher. Shout out to
DJ Reborn! One of the best to ever do it.

Rimarkable: Absolutely.

Zainab: So I took a class there. It was like a crash course over the summer with
her and Opie. And JP. So all three of those people taught me on vinyl
not CDs.

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Rekha: That was they what they taught you first. When I taught my class you
had to learn vinyl first.

Zainab: You learn CDJs after. But actually hated CDJs and I wanted to stick
with vinyl because it just felt like, you know with the pushing and the
pulling, just a natural feel of that. It felt more natural to me and easier
for me to even mix and beat match and stuff. It was better on vinyl for
me. But from that just used to hang out at DubSpot after I stopped
taking classes there because the community was so strong, whatever
business practices they had I'm not going to speak on those, everyone
who worked there and went there was so sweet and ready to help you
out and like teach you things, and let you stay when you aren't really
even supposed to be there. Like during lab hours and just like use
equipment, because I didn't have equipment, so I would just go there to
practice. JP really became a mentor in a sense where he was like, "Yo
like you really have an ear for this. You should get a little bit serious
about it." And I was like, ok. He's like, "Practice and I'm going to try to
set up a gig for you."

So Westway was where he used to play, and I was super nervous

about playing out. I would practice in my room, and when you play out
for the first time it's a totally different story. And I had all these songs I
was so excited to play, from Gesaffelstein to some hip-hop shit, like just
all over the place. I remember got dressed up, got this this yellow
blazer, I didn't get like paid or anything. I was in the back room, and I
remember my sound cut out twice, but it was so nerve wracking, but
had so much fun. I was like, "This is amazing. I want to get better at
this. I want to do this more." After that, I just got super aggressive about
asking people to play their parties.

Rekha: As we saw earlier today.

Zainab: Literally that's how you have to do it. Not to sound crazy, but anything
I've gotten has been by me being persistent. At least from the first point
347
 I was like super persistent about just asking people like, "So let me get
this meeting. Put me on. I promise, I'll show you I can do this you
know." It's just this constant state of business development right. You
have to just pitch yourself to people always, or just find the right
opportunity.

Rekha: Want to hear about my first gig?

Rimarkable: Yes.

Rekha: I had two younger cousins here that were from India, and we started
seeing a bunch of DJs in our Indian community, and kind of hated
them. They were all Magic Mikes boys. And so my cousins did a
Bhangra performance at their high school, John Bowne high school in
Queens. And they were asked to do it at some community center in
Long Island. And the DJ had to play their music, and we thought it was
sabotage. He was a family friend and he worked with Magic Mike. He's
still around Magic Mike, he's like the first Indian DJ in the Tri-State
area, he sounds like Wolfman Jack. They were there were little bit
younger than me, they were from India, I was from here. We started
hearing a lot of music from UK. Bally Sagoo and different things.

Next thing I know, my cousin works at a store, off the books, and
someone is trying to sell him some equipment. He goes, "Should I buy
it?' He pages me, because I had a pager. I was like "Sure, buy it". We
volunteered to do this kid's first birthday party at an Indian restaurant in
New Hyde Park, on the border of Queens and Long Island. We had two
CD players, a RadioShack mixer. which is built like a tank, a
microphone, a cassette deck. Maybe we had one CD player. One CD
player, cassette deck, RadioShack mixer, a microphone. We bought
speakers off of this older family friend of mine who I then returned
because they were terrible Gemini speakers. We borrowed the
amplifier of my parents Kenwood rack system. We had 15 CDs, and the

348
amplifier just kept overheating, because it wasn't meant for that. I got
paid 51 bucks. And I've never stopped.

But that that situation was me and my cousins. I was not the actual
person playing the music. We only had 15 CDs, I know we repeated
them a few times, or ten. I actually started DJing being the DJ, and I
don't remember my first gig, physically doing it. We slowly got more
money. Bought one turntable, second turntable, mixer, slowly amassed.
Self-taught, all of us. But it was really my younger cousin Nitin who was
the DJ, but because of certain family circumstances, they went back to
India. So then I was stuck with this gear and all the stuff, and I was
really behind a lot of the programming and the music. But there was a
gender divide. There were the boys, they did it. I had the car, I had the
credit card, they were sort of inching out of high school. And then once
they left, one left and then the other one left, I started actually DJing
myself.

And it wasn't until I met, through my friend network, this kid, DJ Joy
who was sort of in between colleges, and he was a hip-hop DJ. Queens
kid, Bengali kid. He didn't really know a lot about Bollywood music or
Bhangra. He knew how to mix and he had good ears and stuff. It was
just the right time and place. I needed somebody to help me. We got on
board, and the first gig was some crazy birthday party in Connecticut,
had a lot of cassette tapes because a lot of Indian music was on
cassettes.

A year after we did our first gig, we were playing Summer Stage. We
just had a good chemistry, a good vibe. We started Basement Bhangra.
Eventually he broke up and he did his own thing. He's like some
venture capitalists, some nice straight-laced thing.

I'm glad we got everyone's origin stories, but what I'm really
interested... But what's your format today? What do you guys mix on,
what do you play on? CDJs, and you started on vinyl, which is
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 interesting because you're a little bit older than us. Taught correct way.
So what's your preferred format now? What is your technology now?

Selly: Well I still collect records. I still hunt for records, I order them online. I
still go to the stores, you know, what stores are left.

Rekha: When you play, what do you do? Are you using Serato?

Selly: Well last week, I played two vinyl gigs, and I got to play with Robyn last
week. I ended up playing on my controller because we had an issue
with that particular mixer at the place we worked out, and she played
on Serato. Which was totally fine sometimes, you know, it's hard to
make two things work so great. But I find myself recently, I'm getting a
lot of vinyl gigs, and I have one this week.

Rekha: People are saying specifically this is a vinyl gig. Like Mobile Mondays.

Selly: Yeah, they want records and I'm like, "No problem. I've got thousands. I
can play records!" So I'm enjoying going back to vinyl. I'm enjoying
going back, this is a finite musical set. I've got two bags with me, and I
explain that to this guy who approached me last week asking for
something very new, and I've gotten a lot of new stuff, but I didn't have
the Scorpion album on vinyl.

Zainab: Drizzy Drake.

Selly: Drizzy. So I said, "It's just what's here." And I put the records up behind
me on the shelf and I said "Here we are, it's just here. I don't happen to
have the Drake."

Zainab: Who does have that on vinyl!

Selly: You know, somebody does! Cardi does, the Carters. All that stuff is still
out there.
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Zainab: It's hot. It's selling more than ever. People are like pressing vinyl for
their albums now.

Selly: Yes they are. And I think that they should, because I just love it.

Zainab: It's great.

Selly: So it's interesting to people, I said, "See there are two turntables,
there's no laptop here."

Zainab: I can't just Google "Drake".

Selly: People have to wrap their heads around that. It's like they're not even
thinking, because we live in such an instantaneous society where
everything is so much at your fingertips all the time, "What do you
mean you don't have it?" I don't have it, it's not here. But he's like, "Well
I'm really enjoying it." So he was like, "All right, keep going." You're
having a good time, that's all that matters.

Rekha: So he approached you in the booth while you were mixing.

Selly: There was no booth it was a huge open forum. Some places there is no
divide anymore. Sometimes you're just in a huge open space and folks
can just walk up to you.

Rekha: Have you seen that change over time?

Rimarkable: Yeah it's annoying. I am very sensitive. I'm a very emotional DJ. I need
that divide. I need the separation. I need the access, but I need the
separation. And I missed that from back in the day, you know, and
people are just too familiar and they don't look at it as disrespect, but I
feel like it is, for someone to come in and interject or impose
themselves on what I'm offering, or not really realize what I'm doing.
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Selly: Just appreciate what's happening.

Rimarkable: Yeah, you know what's going on? What I'm giving to you? What I'm
unloading? And what I need you to give back to me?

Selly: My least favorite thing. And it happens, a lot, you know, often enough,
is the phone. I'm just going to put my phone in your face. I am not even
going to give you an excuse.

Zainab: I hate that so much. They don't even say hello, it's like, "Here's this
song."

Rekha: So dialing it back, every gig is different. Every room's physicality is

different. When I started DJs, were absolutely never center stage. They
were always hidden. Sometimes you could peek at them. You could
absolutely not see what they were doing at all. And now things a lot
more transparent. There's less separation. Do you think the way people
come up at you, or access you, has anything to do with your gender?
And also have you ever felt unsafe?

Zainab: I've never thought from a gender way, to be honest. It's just like, "Oh I
can see you. And I want to hear this song right now. And that's the
person responsible for playing the songs right now, so I'm going to ask
them to do this thing." Maybe not unsafe, but I've Definitely been
harassed, a hundred times. Like at Westway where I had my residency
for a while on Fridays, which was like the day. Everyone used to come
through there, like Cameron used to come through there, J Cole has
come through there. It was like the spot on Fridays. The promoters
were all men obviously, white men. I don't drink, so I would be behind
the booth doing my thing and these people would be belligerently drunk
and get up in my ear, super close to me and like ask for a song. Or like
touch me in a place I don't want to touched and like ask for a song. And
that's like a different story. I could tell that whole Westway story, but 1
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 won't. That, shit I hate it. And the phone. It's just rude, so rude to just
come up to me and be like, "Hey I need you to put this on. I understand
if you're at a wedding or it's a gig where you're like, "Hey this is what we
need you to play", like you're contractually agreed to. I'm only listening
to the client, I'm not listening to some random person who came up to
me and asked me to do XYZ.

Rimarkable: I've definitely felt unsafe. I don't feel like people making requests were
being rude like that, or it's because of my gender. But the unsafe part,
I've definitely been touched inappropriately. I still work at this venue. I'm
not going to say their name. I still work at this venue and they've made
changes to correct it, but it's generally super dark in there. At a certain
point of the night, people used to get wasted. It used to be very man
heavy, and they've made a lot of changes to switch that up.

Rekha: Sausage fest.

Rimarkable: Yeah. So it would be super dark in there, and the music would be
blasting, and I'm in a dark corner, and people step behind the table and
touch me on my waist, or touch me on my arm, or come right up in my
ear, or just get very inappropriate. And I've also been like flinching.
They're like, "I'm just trying to ask you for a request,' and I'm like, "No
requests, no requests," and I've been cussed out, called all kinds of
bitches like, and that energy will affect what I'm doing.

I have had another incident in this really big club I play, with one of the
female patrons. I keep the security guard right by my booth at that
point, because, don't talk to me it's really distracting. The 30 seconds I
have to stop and listen to you, I'm missing the moments, I'm missing
out on the vibration.

Selly: People don't understand that, and that's what's so fortunate. DJing is
so cerebral in so many ways, they don't even understand that you are
in a place in your head, you're reading a screen for the most part.
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 You're filtering sound, you're watching energy, you're shifting energy.
People don't even understand all those dynamics. They're drinking,
they're having a good time, and all they want to hear is their jam. I'm
like, "Ok guys, that's cool, but there's something going on here behind
this table."

Zainab: Just trust that your song will come when it needs to.

Rimarkable: It probably will.

Rekha: Or your songs sucks.

Zainab: Or your song sucks and I'm not going to play it.

Rekha: Or I played your song and you weren't here!

Zainab: Yeah, I've been here for three and a half hours, it's 1:30.

Rekha: I don't care that you have to must leave now..

Rimarkable: I'm sorry you missed that, you can listen to it in the car because it's
probably going to come on when you get in there.

Zainab: You're so right though. If you're at the chorus, we were going to mix out
whatever. And then someone decides to have a full-on conversation.
And you're like, now I just played an extra minute of the song that I
didn't need to play.

Selly: And I didn't want to play it. I had a moment where I knew what I was
coming in with the next song. And you kind of hijacked it.

Zainab: You ruined it!

Rekha: How much do you prepare?

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Zainab: That's a great question.

Rekha: And how do you prepare? I want to think of it in terms of labor. Your set
is an hour, but what goes into that?

Rimarkable: I tell people DJing is a 24 hour job. I am constantly preparing.

Constantly, from witnessing people walking down the street, bopping
off a song that's in the car, to feeling the vibration, to watching the
news, to the weather, to looking at Spotify seeing where I'm going to be
led. Or Shazamming when I'm out and abou,t and digging, and that
sends me through a rabbit hole. I'm constantly preparing.

Rekha: Ok, I mean we're always constantly listening to music and making
notes. I'm saying for specific gigs. Is there a methodology around your
preparation? Do you make crates?

Rimarkable: I feel like I have a ton of crates because I do all kinds of parties. I have
a ton of crates sometimes I just show up and feel the vibe and see
what's going to happen. Other times, lately in the past year I really
started programming. I used to live under that philosophy, like, "I don't
know what I'm going to play. I never prep for my gigs." But I
programming, and it's not like the songs I'm picking aren't dope, and it
actually frees me up to kind of have a different experience, which is
refreshing.

Rekha: What's the time like?

Rimarkable: To prepare it? It takes a lot of time, I would say hours honestly because
I have to move songs around, and I have to see how it's gonna to flow.
I have to listen to the beginning and the end of things, or think about
how I want to shift the energy.

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Rekha: Yeah soat a minimum when you get a song you have to do something
to it. So that it's ready to play, right. You have to at least queue it. You
have to at least figure out where it's going to start. Lesson number one.
where are you starting this song.

Zainab: That takes the longest, is the prep. For me when you say prepping for a
gig, it's not so much being behind the turntables and mixing as much as
it's like, all right this is the vibe I want to go for and these are the songs
I want to play. And all those moments that you mentioned, like hearing
that song in the car, walking down the street. I'll always have my notes
up, and I'll just write down a song. Two hours would just be like
downloading the song. Getting the songs that I need. Because for me
at least, yeah you have your crates, but then you have a gig you're like
ok, I don't want to play the same shit I played last time, so let me find
out all these new songs that I've heard since my last gig and that takes
the longest. And then you've got to sit and organize a crate and figure
out, pull from this crate and that crate, and then put in all the new
songs, analyze them, put in the queue points, find a cool loop, and then
you get to practice. I often feel like what ends up happening is I'll spend
hours doing that, and I don't even get the time to practice, and then my
practice is at the actual gig.

Rekha: My favorite ideas happen in the moment, because I'm just feeling it.
Absolutely. But every time I have put in dedicated work for gigs that I
don't want to fuck up, I've used whatever I've done there, like forever.
And it's like, "Ok, this set. There's something about these songs. I know
this works." Over time it changes, you know. But that's very helpful.

So when we were talking about the whole like DJ booth space and
people coming in and out. Has anyone ever-like venue people or
sound people or CDJs-has anyone ever reached in.

Rimarkable: What do you mean, like reach across the table?

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Rekha: Reached in like tried and like fixed the EQ?

Multiple: Oh my god, what colleagues do that!

Zainab: I hate that shit.

Rimarkable: I feel like Incredible Hulk on the inside, like, are you serious? And when
I see people doing, when a D.J. is transitioning, like you're going
transition to the next DJ and they'll do something like that...

Rekha: So I've had a lot of experiences where guys be on around you,

hovering, and then there's some reason they just reach in.

Zainab: Yeah I've had that too.

Rekha: Do you feel like it's a dude thing or not?

Rimarkable: I definitely feel like it's an aggressive dude thing. I actually had one
woman do it because I was at a gig and I stepped away to use the
bathroom and to grab a drink real quick. She's a DJ friend, colleague
and I was like "Wow, I didn't know the bass went out on that part." This
chick is my booth! Tweaking my-I was like, "Girl! Girl, if you don't
come out of my booth right now, it's going to be a problem.

Rekha: What does that mean? Your booth? It's your booth?

Rimarkable: It's my booth, for that time?

Rekha: Is it your dance floor?

Rimarkable: It's my altar!

Rekha: What is your relationship to the dance floor? If that's your alter, is that
your flock?
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Rimarkable: Well interestingly enough, I was a dancer first, before I was a DJ. And I
know the way that music responds, and the dancer's body, and that
gives me the insight that I use to perform. And so I know about that
exchange. I'm not in the party by myself, which is kind of why I don't
want people talking. It's like, "Enjoy this! Let's have this exchange!
Concentrate on the floor!" The dance floor is mine in terms of like I
have the controls. I am controlling it. But it's more so like a give and
take response to what the dancer is doing. Or what I want them to do. I
want them to escape.

Rekha: Does that feeling feel different and different spaces? Does the crowd
matter? Does that affect the experience?

Selly: Well I would say you just have to know where you are. If you don't
know where you are, then you don't know how to approach this thing.
There are certain venues where dancing and carrying on is not the
equivalent of folks having a good time right. It's not necessarily allowed
but people aren't really known to dance. It doesn't have that reputation,
but they love a good heavy beat, or something like that. For some
spaces, the relationship that music has to the audience is different.
Some places are more notorious for having crazy dance parties, if you
know you are in that spot, you'd better come and bring it you know. And
if you know that you're in a wine bar a place that's serving specialty
cocktails, then you're going to give them something maybe a little
different. So I would say that there are different versions of myself that I
bring to the different places that I go to. I have an awareness of where I
am. I don't always have this privilege, but I try to visit a place before I
go play there. I'm not always able to do that anymore but I think it's our
job to do our homework in that way, or to see the way people respond
to a DJ, an alternate space that you know that you're going to come
and play. It's good homework and as DJs, we have all kinds of
homework to do.

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Rimarkable: It's one of the hardest jobs out there.

Zainab: It is because it's like you said, it's always on.

Selly: Yeah you're never not thinking about it.

Rekha: What's the homework like in terms of interacting with the venues?

Zainab: For me, that's one thing, like visiting the place. I think it's your first time
playing is the homework, like seeing what the crowd the first time you
play there. Like, they didn't really react to this, but let me switch it up
here. And like, ok that's a good note for me. Next time I play in this
venue, are like, maybe when I have this timeslot or whatever it is.

Rekha: And the time slot matters?

Zainab: Time is important. I hate the DJs who show up at like 10:00pm and play
all the bangers. I'm like, that's not your job.

Rimarkable: You got to play the opening set dawg.

Zainab: Yeah you got play an opening set! That to me is one of the most
annoying things you can do as a D J. Feel like you're privileged to bring
the songs that are meant for that 1 2, lam time...

Rekha: I love opening sets.

Selly: Opening and closing.

Zainab: Less pressure.

Rimarkable: I love closing. I'm learning to read the situation. I've had a couple
incidents where I was the opening DJ. One, I was the opening DJ and I

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 did not hold back. Because I'm like, "This is where we are. We came to
play. This is the bar. Sorry. This is my shot."

Zainab: I see what you're saying.

Rimarkable: There also was a situation where I played with one of these celebrity
DJs and I held back to set her up. She came and played basically
everything I had played already.

Selly: I've actually had that experience.

Rimarkable: I am like, "Damn I should have went off!" I should have gone off.

Rekha: I think it's a dick move to like preempt the main headline. Even if it's
your slot.

Rimarkable: Not go off in terms of embarrass her, like smithereens in this piece. But
I didn't have to pull back so much.

Rekha: I'm notoriously so picky about who opens for me. I feel sorry for that
person because with Indian music, if it's an Indian set, there's a
limited... In a situation you're playing the hits, there's always a window
of hits, and if someone before you-

Rimarkable: It's a hard job.

Rekha: And if my person before starts dipping into that pool, it really affects my
flow a lot. Like you said, I don't want to fuck it up for them, but I want
them to understand that they need to set the vibe. I the time of setting
the vibe has changed greatly, because things happen faster. I used to
play slower, longer. Now it's like I'm getting things faster, quicker.
Technology has informed that to some degree as well as people's
impatience. Before when you went into a club, all exits were final.
There was no going up to smoke. Now it's like, this place sucks we're
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 going to the next place. So the dynamics of the experience on the other
side of change. Do you guys scratch in your sets?

Zainab: A little bit.

Selly: No I'm not a big scratcher. Every once in a while, I go, "ziga ziga ziga"
But that's not my lane. I'm comfortable with not being known for that.

Zainab: I actually tried to learn. At one point, I got kind of serious about it. I was
like, "I really want to do this. This is how I'm going to take my DJing to a
next level". I always the turntablism. I was, "These are the roots of
DJing. This is where it all started. Let me at least pick up some shit." I
had someone teaching me basic stuff, like fade in and out. And then I
remember trying to do a crab scratch and I gave up. I was like, "This
shit is hard. I don't have the patience for this, but I know enough stuff.
It's so militant. You have to do it constantly."

Rekha: I don't scratch either. I do the little "ziga ziga" every once in a while. Pull
it back, throw it in, scratch into it, dramatic starting transition. You don't
use it in your sets.

Zainab: Barely, if ever.

Rekha: How do you think the crowd is into it?

Zainab: So here's the thing. I think no one really gives a shit if you scratch or
not like, at least now, because people are fucking-l won't even go into
who's doing it today and what DJing even means in 2018. That has a
whole different definition. So I don't think anyone gives a fuck if you're if
you're scratching or not as long as you're playing their songs. But I will
say, DJ's like A-trak is somebody who is on a big stage and still does
that, and I respect that, because those are his roots and that's where
he came from. It's part of his performance. For people like him and
people who can do it, I think when people hear it, they appreciate it. But
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 they're not looking for that, they don't want a whole break down, like
turntablism set in the middle of a 1:00am slot at some popping
nightclub. No one's realily looking for that. Unless you're known for that.
So I don't think it's necessary, if you will.

Rekha: What about other DJ techniques or tools that maybe are afforded by
aides and software like looping.

Rimarkable: I love that. I love effects and loops.

Rekha: You guys do that?

Rimarkable: I do it all the time. I love it. I'm having more and more fun with it. I used
to be just straight, next song to the next song. Blending of course, but
the effects, that's cool. I love it. I'm looking for new ways to utilize the
equipment. You have all this software with hundreds of effects and
you're like, I want to try that one day!

Rekha: Do you feel like the crowd responds to those things?

Rimarkable: If you do it right. But I don't like sets where it's constant. It's like, do you
know how to blend or nah? But if you throw it in, if you make it like a
dramatic blend, an echo, a loop, I love that shit.

Zainab: The echo out is my favorite thing.

Rimarkable: Its helpful too.

Zainab: 'Cause it a good cheat code. If you want to switch BPMs.

Rimarkable: But every mix cannot be an echo out.

Rekha: I have a hard time blending without bass dropping. I just don't even
know if I can. And then I was doing something small scale. Just with
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 friends. And there was no EQ, and I was like, "I don't know how to do
this!" How did I ever.

Rimarkable: Especially with house music, certain drum patterns are going to be
different and it'll sound like a clash

Rekha: It's overkill drums, so like to blend out, it's just better to do... It is my
signature.

Zainab: For me, what I've seen a crowd respond is word play. So taking a
phrase and sound or something in a different song and playing with that
back and forth.

Rimarkable: Yeah that's dope.

Zainab: For me, that's more than a filter out or an echo out, or something.
That's when I've seemed crowd be like, "Oh that's dope! You took that
T-Pain song and did something with that Kanye song and that was
dope."

Rekha: Are we plaining Kanye?

Zainab: Oh god, no this was before [Laughs].

Rekha: Do you feel like you're part of a DJ community?

Rimarkable: Absolutely.

Multiple: Yes. Yeah. Absolutely

Rekha: Who's in the community? How do you define it?

Rimarkable: Honestly, people that show me love and people I show love to.

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Rekha: Like DJs?

Rimarkable: Yeah other DJs. I go to their parties, they come to mine.

Selly: It's hard to do it. You know it's an effort. Oftentimes we're all doing the
same thing at the same time, so that's hard. But there is a community,
there's definitely a community. And you try to throw each other work
here and you get a little exchange going here and there, but yeah
there's definitely a crew around who I support and I hold in reverence.

Rimarkable: Absolutely

Zainab: For me, it's not what you were saying of giving people work. When I
can't show up to a gig, or actually listen to your set. We've done that a
bunch of times. I do that with somebody, who was starting up. Now like
he's playing everywhere. I remember when he first started playing, I
was like, "This could be a good party for you to do." And I introduced
them to somebody, so now it's like we have that understanding, I have
your back, you have my back type of thing.

Rekha: Ever been burned by giving somebody a gig, and then you don't feel
like it comes back to you in the same way?

Zainab: I don't really do tit for tat.

Rimarkable: One person out there. I've taken her off the shit list, she was definitely
on that list. Showed up hella later to my gig, and wanted to leave early
and has not held me down! Like, I hooked you up. Not that I need it, but
it's about the gesture.

Zainab: Yes someone did that to me once, where I built a relationship with this
venue. I was curating that night and I had worked with him multiple
times and I was like, "Do you want to open for me?" So I didn't show up
at the opening time, I was coming closer to my time. So he was
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 supposed to be there to open, and I get a text from the venue, the
promoter being like, "This person lashed out on us, just like threw a
whole hissy fit and didn't play the set," and basically was like clearly in
the wrong. They were like mad that he showed up late and he basically
refused to play after that because they gave him an attitude, that kid
has problems anyways. He left and then he fucked me, because then
the venue didn't want to work with me anymore. So that was the last
time I played there.

Rimarkable: In New York, we're building these reputations and these relationships,
like you can't be messing around. You're messing my shit up.

Selly: The most memorable thing that I could say happening in the recent
past was that I gave somebody a night and they didn't show up.

Zainab: That's bad.

Selly: Granted there was snow, but it's still not an excuse.

Rekha: I DJed the day after my wisdom teeth were extracted

Selly: It wasn't serious. I mean, we go out in all kinds of weather because we

have to. But yeah that person didn't show up and needless to say I
haven't given him any more.

Zainab: That person like totally ghosted, like didn't even say anything?

Selly: He didn't say anything. I found out think the next day.

Rimarkable: Wow the venue didn't even hit you up?

Selly: I have a good relationship with the venue. So it was it was ok.

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Rekha: I had a high end gig and I asked somebody to recommend musicians to
join. He couldn't be there. So he's like, "Look I know you guys do these
kinds of parties. You do extra musicians, like a sax, a drum kit, the
Indian Drum, the dhol." And it was a lot of money on a table. This one
high-end wedding planner that throws me a bone every once, not often,
but the bone is really good. Maybe it's once a year, maybe every two
years, but it's stellar. And he's like, "I'm going to send a video crew to
tape them," I'm like, "No you're not." You can't send a video crew to
tape them. And then this woman shows up. She's a sax player and
she's wearing cowboy boots.

It wasn't a wedding, but it was at the Rainbow Room, and it was a high
end gig. And I didn't know, I thought he had this cadre of musicians that
jam together. These people didn't play together. So he was just
throwing shit together. And then the kid he had, the guy, I was like,
"You can have one drink." And he was late. I go, "Come on!" I do call
time super early. They didn't get the level, of you know, they didn't get
it. That's the kind of place where before they let doors open, they make
sure everything is pointed the right way. Those are those gigs, that's
why the stakes are different. They just didn't understand that. It was
fine in the end, but that kid told him later, "Yeah, I don't want to work for
her," because I said, "You're on your second or third drink and you're
hitting on a girl." You know, no. I tell people, you don't talk, you just do
your thing. People don't understand. This is a context where we're in
service to them. I think I'm like, kind of done. I don't know what else you
guys want to talk about.

Rekha: Do you think there's anything different about being a woman DJ or

DJing in different spaces? Like in terms of the makeup or the crowd.

Rimarkable: Absolutely.

Rekha: Let's go there. Tell me about that. The question is, do you think there's
a difference being a woman DJ.
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Rimarkable: Absolutely. I think there is a difference, being a woman DJ. It's
expected for you to have a certain physical aesthetic nowadays. It's
part of the deal. Yeah it's absolutely a part of the gig. You have to
present a certain way.

Rekha: What do you mean present a certain way?

Rimarkable: You have be femme. Not so much these days, but femme or just sexy.
Quite frankly, sexy. I know that I have been shadowed out of certain
gigs and crews because I don't always present that way. I'm old school.
I have been DJing 22 years. I'm about the guts and the grit and get
nasty with it and I don't always think about that, you know. But this is a
new time. This is a new day. And you know, I do enjoy looking nice and
it does give me a certain way of confidence, but that doesn't mean that
I'm trying to do that every single time. Not that I'm going to look bad at
any point. But I don't want to feel pressure to beat my face, and be
dressed in heels to go play a damn gig, when I want to be sweaty and
get nasty, and I'm dancing too.

Rekha: When I say, to be a woman, are there other things that are not just
about physical appearance. Like your Sunday Joy party in the summer.
That's a very special space, it has a different energy. It does not feel
like a douchy club at all. It feels intergenerational. It feels like it's super
queer. There's a range of different kinds of people. I'm just wondering is
any of that kind of thinking behind how that feels differently and
different?

Rimarkable: That definitely feels differently. Because it's something that I'm a part of
creating. I am creating that vibe. I'm creating what I really want to see
what with events where it's about joy, it's about love, it's about the
music, it's about the people, more so than like, we're at the club and
we're buying 15 dollar drinks and look at that sexy girl DJ that's playing

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 kind of in a mediocre way and getting away with it because she's pretty.
I really value that versus the latter.

Rekha: You know the question is like, is it different to be a woman DJ. What is
different about that?

Zainab: The thing I dislike is when someone will come up to you and be like,
"Wow you're pretty good for a girl." Or like, "I love female DJs." That
phrase is just so contradictory and stupid to me because it's like saying,
"Oh, you're a female doctor. You're a female lawyer. You're a female
teacher." What do you even mean, it's just a profession. It's a skill. It's
not something that as a female, it's interesting for me to be that.

Even in the tech industry. Like I know Rekha, you kind of work on that
side too. Of course there are less women. That's a fact. From tech to
music to whatever. But that doesn't mean just because you're a woman
in that space that your skill set is less than. So that's the thing that I
face, those comments of like, "Oh like you're pretty good", or "I really
want female DJs for this." I get that but I hate that it's this quota thing.
Like, I need to have a quota, or I'm going for this look or this vibe, or I'm
trying to look like I support women and it's just feels really phony to me
a lot of the time. Not always. But don't really like that. And the thing you
mentioned about looks, that is so much a part of it now. Right. It's like,
Let me have that super hot girl, who doesn't really know what the hell
she's doing. But it's going to look really good at this Vegas party." I saw
this girl propelled from being a host. I was DJing a party where she was
a host, and in the last year, she just decided to DJ and has now played
in clubs that I could never think of touching.

Rimarkable: I think I know who you're talking about. I am like, "Wow, really?"

Zainab: And you know, because she's naked a lot. Her boobies are out. She's
got a social media. I get it. I get that's like the formula these days. But if
I had maybe taken my shirt off and had my titties out, or like decided to
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 be really out there physically, I feel like I could have been in Vegas in
no time. A lot of those people associate with other people who are in
those spaces because of how they've used their looks as an
advantage, or the way they're going to be naked on the gram to their
advantage. And so they band together, and they take up all these gigs,
where like women like us who have been doing this forever and refuse
to risk that, have a longer trajectory to getting to that pay grade or to
that venue.

Rekha: Is that the only way?

Zainab: It's not the only way, but it's an easier way. It's a faster way.

Rimarkable: It's way faster, but I'm grateful I took the high road, the long road,
because I actually can DJ.

Zainab: And you know when you see those people up that they actually can't.
So it's fine because I'm not trying to service a Vegas audience
anyways.

Selly: So you can equate it to a race or a marathon. I'm in the marathon. I'm
going the 26.5 five miles or how many point whatever miles it is. There
are so many years and history behind me as I am right here in 2018,
and I wouldn't trade that for anything and I wouldn't have done anything
different. Have I been overlooked for gigs a lot? Yes. Because I'm a
woman? Possibly. Have I played up on dressing up and looks? No, I
haven't. And maybe I have lost out for that. I feel like I've done
something ethically that I can live with. And I know that we live in a very
instant society, but those women who are running the race to get to
Vegas or to get to the Sunset Strip or wherever it is that they view as
the top echelon of DJing, check them in five years.

Multiple: Exactly!

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Selly: Check me in 5 years, I'm still going to be doing this.

Rimarkable: I'm still going to be doing this. I have a career.

Zainab: So true. I used to complain to my boyfriend about this, "Yo, I'm so tight,
this girl is taking all my gigs."

Selly: It's really about the longevity of it. Honestly I view myself as a music
lover first, so that love is never going to leave me when my breath
leaves my body, that love will leave me. You know what I'm saying. So
it's really about knowing that, if you're in this and you're passionate
about it, it will continue to transform and morph and be all of these
different things as you presenting yourself as a music authority. And
those who were in it for the wrong reasons will fall right back into
something else for the same reasons. So maybe it's DJing today,
whatever the next trajectory of fame, how that's manifested. They're
going to jump on that band wagon. Because it's not about the culture of
sound for them. For me that's what it's about. Which is how I pick and
choose, as you were saying, my community. The people who I revere,
the people who I embrace, those are those people in the marathon with
me. Because they're in it for the long run. They're in it for their passion.
They want to produce. They want to move forward with it. And they're
really about it. I can't put myself in a place where I am comparing
myself to those people because I just can't. I live in a completely
different life.

Zainab: You guys have obviously been-you said 22 years. How long have you
been DJing?

Selly: I can't even count, since I was a kid. Professionally like 19. A very long
time.

Zainab: I haven't even hit 10 yet. I'm at like 9 or something, 8 or 9. In that time
right that I've come up, I feel like I was at the place where the DJ was
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 starting to become that person, like the famous person. Like Diplo was
starting to become a big deal and all those people who now have their
residencies in Vegas and everything. But even then, when I first started
learning, I felt like the right people were in those places. And I was like I
really looked up to a lot of those people, because I would see them play
and I genuinely would feel something, and be like, "This is amazing.
Like the way this person does this." And then five, six years into it, I had
like my own residencies, parties, whatever. And I felt good, but then I
started to see this Instagram era take over with these younger girls or
anyone who had a following, honestly, and was like, "Oh I can leverage
this following into this thing that people actually work hard at, and I'm
just going to pretend to know what I'm doing." I kid you not. One of
these influencers invited me to one of their gigs, when they just decided
to start DJing. I went and they were literally playing from Spotify,
pressing play and pause. I was so mad. I sat in my room for like hours
at a time, learning how to do this, actually learning. And I got so mad
seeing that, so I did start comparing myself to people.

Rimarkable: Yeah that's why we can't do that. It is bad and it is misleading because
I find myself getting like, "How the hell?" Then I have snap out of it,
because she's not going to be here forever.

Selly: The people who are often most misled by those profiles are the venue
owners. They are the ones who are blindsided by that. Real DJs don't
recognize that behavior. If they're about something, they're coming to
see if you can play. They're not coming to see what you are wearing.

Rimarkable: Exactly.

Zainab: It took me a while to get over that. For me, it was like, "Oh this is a gig
that I could be on. But this person who just started DJing..."

Rekha: It's not whether you can act, it's being cast in a part.

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Rimarkable: That's right.

Zainab: That's a bar. That's a bar.

Rekha: To me the DJ booth the sacred space. I need to trust that you not
going fuck up my set. Put your hand in, do the right thing. Be in here
with me. How many times have we had guest DJ's, in 20 years of
Basement Bhangra, where my co DJ Shilpa, she'll be like, "What is it
with these guys. Why don't they have the right software updates?"
She's like, "I have the leadership. I'm on top of my shit. And these guys
are just like, what do they do?"

It happened at Summer Stage, completely mis-connect things. Do

women ever come up to you and be like, "Yo that's cool and I want to
learn. Any of that stuff. Have you taught anybody? Do you have any
relationship to mentoring, or anything formally or informally?"

Rimarkable: I formally teach a course called the alchemy of DJing. It's expanding
and I do offer it publicly. I do have people that may have caught wind of
it and then come up to me and it's primarily women and I love that. I
probably have had one guy and he fell off. I'm like, "OK great. I want to
build a DJ army." This class or this course is to to teach people how to
actually DJ.

I think we were hanging out one night and I was sharing with you about
one of my students, attended one of these "academies" and she paid
six thousand dollars for a year. She said, "I learned more in three
sessions with you, for a fraction of that, than I learned in a year."

Rekha: How is it going to take a year?

Zainab: I took one of those classes and 90 percent of my learning, don't get me
wrong, Reborn and everyone were great teachers. It's what you do on
your own. The little nuances and tips and tricks. That's not going to
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 come from a six thousand dollar course, that's going to come from
practice.

Rekha: I can teach somebody the mechanics of DJing in about ten minutes. It's
a question of, "Ok I'm going to tell you what's going to happen." But
how to do that right, that's up to you. You could show people an octave
and where the notes are. But they have to learn-

Rimarkable: I teach people what actually happens when you are DJing. The
alchemy behind, the magic.

Rekha: What is magic?

Rimarkable: Alchemy is a seemingly magical process of transformation. So

basically, I'm taking this music and I'm making it become a celebration.
I'm creating something out of thin air, basically, by mixing this music.
And it's done in a certain way that the transformative process is, you
got to know that. That's what the real DJing is.

It's not just programming. It's about understanding people. It's about
understanding emotion. I mean you gotta take my course. But it's about
understanding people, and understanding emotion and how to program
that essentially.

Zainab: That's so true. I had such a funny experience teaching someone how to
DJ. I want to do it more honestly. I would love to actually have a
student and go through a whole course, but a girl reached out to me
and was like, hey I really want to DJ my birthday party. She a specific
thing that she wanted to do. And I was like, "Great!". I thought it was
more longevity, like she wanted to actually learn and not just for the
party, but that was the thing that she wanted to be prepared for. So I
took her coins and I taught her how to DJ. But it was annoying because
she didn't give a shit about actually DJing. When I got into the first
lesson, it was like, this is purely about looking cool in front of people.
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Rimarkable: I've had students tell me that's what they want to do, and I'm like-

Rekha: Wrong class!

Zainab: She didn't care. I was trying to actually teach her stuff. I was like, "I'm
imparting real knowledge on you right now." I could tell she was so
distracted: she was on her phone, she was looking away. I had to
explain something like 30 times, to the point where it was like, you don't
really give a shit, you just want me to show you how to go from song a
to song b, so you can make yourself look cool. But hey if you want to
waste your money, fine. It was a shame because I knew the girl
through stuff and I liked her, when I gave her these lessons, it was just
like, "Damn this sucks." And that's what really then opened my eyes, for
a lot of people, like you said, it's that race. They're not in it for the
marathon, they're in it for that one moment where they're in front of the
crowd and they just want to look cool. And I was like, "I can't believe
these are the people reaching out to me for lessons." But I took her
money regardless.

Selly: Unfortunately it's what this digital culture breeds, because they see the
DJ's kind of like an iconic figure. But they don't really understand what
is behind all of that. It's like, "Oh DJ, that's the name of the coolest job
in the world. I want to be that, and I want to wear pretty dresses and do
this and have my hair be special," all that stuff. It's not about any of that
But people are blindsided by this digital age, where you can manipulate
anything to look like a rock star. You can create this alternate self that
is playing in front of 2000 people and just rocking it out. There's so
much falseness involved. I don't dwell on that because again that's not
my world. I don't dwell on it. I find joy and happiness in the parties and
the things that I get to bring to people. I try not to live in a place where
I'm looking at all of these things. As far as I'm concerned, the things
that I look at on my Instagram feed are very curated. They represent
me, they represent the people who I hang out with. I'm not about that
374
 life. I'm not looking at these rock star people, who some may have
earned it, but many of them haven't. That's not something I'm avidly
paying attention to. There's no app for taste.

Rekha: Money can't buy you class!

Selly: There is no app for taste. If you have poor taste in music, if you cannot
put things together and make a story and present a scene or an
experience to people, then you're pushing buttons. What are you
building, what are you creating, what kind of experience are you giving
people?

Rekha: How do you learn that?

Rimarkable: It's one of those things, you either got it or you don't.

Zainab: I totally agree.

Rekha: It's not learnable.

Rimarkable: Like how do you know if it's a good song.

Zainab: Taste is like style. You either have style or you don't.

Rekha: Do you think that the perception of not having style could prevent
people, if they don't dress a certain way, or look a certain way? I'm just
curious.

Zainab: Everyone can say they have good taste in music. Like, "Oh I listened to
this and I listen to that, this is my unique taste." That's fine. That's
great. But part of it with DJing is bringing that taste and narrowing it
down to that place and moment that it makes sense for. Do you know
how to come in and read a room and be like, "This is the taste level I'm
going to bring here." The other part is storytelling, which is taking that
375
 those songs and that taste, and being able to take someone on a
journey through that. That's your unique perspective that you're
bringing to DJing that no one else can bring. But you either have the
ability to tell a good story, or you don't.

Rekha: So what about these cases of like, the bedroom DJ makes a track,
goes somewhere, becomes famous, there's always...

Zainab: Some people get lucky.

Rekha: Do you think it's easier for a guy to get that?

Rimarkable: Potentially. Like Dan Funk. He was a veteran DJ, and look at him now,
like he's actually good. I love Dan Funk. I have a student that just
finished her course, she is a beast. She just needs her confidence.

Rekha: What was up with her confidence?

Rimarkable: She came from an abusive relationship where a man was overbearing
and basically breaking down her confidence, and she was afraid. Much
of the class was like a therapy session, honestly. She's a beast! She
comes from a jazz family. Her music knowledge is incredible. I am like,
"Girl. All you got to do is practice at least two hours a day. By the
summer, Imma put you out. Imma put you on a stroll. Imma put you on
the strip in the summertime, because you about to knock some heads
over." She's the complete package. She's just a beast. Yeah,
confidence is important. But the bedroom DJ shouldn't give up. It's
usually the confidence piece. There's a lot of stuff that goes on in
people's bedrooms.

Zainab: Are you talking specifically about the bedroom DJ, or like producer? I
feel like there are 2 different things.

376
Rekha: I feel like there's this sort of mythology around the whole idea of how
easy it can be. The coolest job in the world. When I was on the come-
up, or even when I was teaching at NYU, this notion of like "bedroom
DJ producer gets a song out." Some of these really young people/
Avicii came up that way. It's a moment of time. It's some sort of
divineness around bedroom production that's just like secret, like in this
bedroom, if given the opportunity, they can just be like, you know.
Maybe that's just my perception of things. A sort of a mythology around
the ease of how easy it is to get there. Same thing where people who
are "influencers" and they just want to jump, maybe they want to be in
acting, or they want to do something that has a visibility, because they
have something else going for them.

Zainab: To your point of technology. It's easier to make a song, because you
can torrent Ableton and go on YouTube and figure out how to put
together a beat.

Rimarkable: And have mastered and then put it up and sell it on Bandcamp.

Rekha: The process to do it is easy. Taking people like it or grab it or making it

sound good, that's...

Zainab: That's a totally different story, and some people get lucky where it's
like, oh this is the first beat I made, and it's blowing up. The detail that
people forget is that that bedroom DJ producer has probably been
tinkering in their bedroom for years, and they put that song out.

Rekha: My favorite is when Desi girls like want to be like RnB singers and they
started five minutes ago. I'm like, "Beyonce started when she was two."
You want to do that, you want to be pop? All these girls that are pop
stars, they started at six.

Zainab: That's to your point again about the instantaneous gratification that also
comes with the wanting to be that instantly famous pop star or instantly
377
 famous DJ. It's like, you think that all it is, is buying that set up or
making that one song, and then you should be on by now, like damn
you put in the work! People think that that's putting in work, and it's not.
The 10,000 hour shit is real. Going out there and failing and trying
again and having a horrible gig, like all this stuff.

Selly: And falling on your face a million times. You have the most to gain from
your mistakes, not from your successes. If you are reflective, you will
learn, and you will get better and you're going to say, "You know what,
that didn't really work." You go back and revisit that. And those are the
things that make you better.

Rekha: Yeah. All right. Any final words? What if someone says female DJ, girl
DJ, queen on a flyer, how do you feel? Does it matter? Ladies Night?

Multiple: [Laughs]

Rimarkable: It's like, all right dude. That's how I feel.

Rekha: I hate it when people call me the queen anything. It just fucks with my
gender. It's not my gender! I'm not a queen. People who should know
better still do it. The most wokest person.

Zainab: Yass Queen.

Rekha: No not even that, that's just appropriating queer black culture. That is
just a bastardization of black culture.

All right. I think it's time for TGIF. Tuesday TGIF. That was our plan, we
would eat afterwards and the closest proximity to food, the most easiest
thing on this rainy day is TGIF. We could discuss later if there's an
option.

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Selly: I want to say thank you. Thank for bringing us together. I think it's
important for people to record and to listen to stories of one another, in
terms of the things we've had to work through. And I know you have
your own story, and your own timeline with your party and much
respect to that. Much respect for just asking us to come on board and
do this today.

Multiple: Thank you so much.

Zainab: You said that so eloquently.

Rekha: Weren't we in that photo shoot?

Selly: Yes, I can't find that magazine, do you have it?

Rekha: I have it. Suede.

Selly: Take a picture and send me that picture.

Rekha: I will take a picture. I don't throw anything away.

Selly: I've moved so much over the years, some of the magazines I have lost.

Rekha: We were in this ridiculous photo shoot. Were you there when I was
fighting for them to connect the equipment?

Selly: Yes.

Rekha: They had the set up where the turntables and the mixers were not
together. I go, "First of all, that's not how you DJ, and I'm not going to
be in the picture unless you connect everything.

Selly: Absolutely!

379
Rekha: And I need you to put a black tape on this thing that says "Gemini
mixer" because no DJ would ever use that a Gemini. I will not use
Gemini. I learned about the small claims court system. "This is about a
shitty Gemini mixer from the store." That's one issue. Their launch
issue they they did this panorama of female DJs.

Selly: It was hilarious. It was so cold in that place.

Rekha: It was terrible. It was the worst shit. They had us come in Chelsea, it
took forever, they drove us in, freaking, like, Kensington somewhere,
some gymnasium. It was horrible.

Selly: Some weird shit. And then our gig was just...

Rimarkable: Aww man, ain't going to talk about that.

Rekha: That was one of those. Wow. You are. Yeah, okay. Yikes.

Rimarkable: It was definitely a yikes. T

Rekha: The best part was telling Madonna's kids to get off the fucking
speakers, that was a moment.

Rimarkable: I yelled at Lourdes.

Rekha: And what's the kid's...

Multiple: Rocco.

Rekha; Rocco. Madonna was performing, we were on stage. It's the Women's
March. The Women's March! We're on stage all day, to not play any
songs. It started off with Michael Moore talking too much. Then
Scarlett, she got cut off because she talked too much. Yeah it was
extra. And then Madonna came on, and then like a hundred people
380
 came onstage with her, and then her kids were all on top of our
monitors.

Rimarkable: Lourdes was standing on a monitor, and I was, "Um, get down!"

Rimarkable: She loved it, she loved me after that.

Selly: She needed you to put her in her place.

Rimarkable Yeah, people were like, "You do know Madonna will buy another one." I
was like, "Actually no she won't. She's going to go home after this.
She's not going to think about these funky monitors. Sue her for it."

Rekha: Oh my god, can I put that on my resume now, "shared stage with
Madonna".

Rimarkable: Yeah, I totally have that in my bio.

Rekha: Oh my god, everyone-Janelle-

Rimarkable: Alicia Keys, Maxwell, Madonna. Cher, I don't put her on my bio, but I
definitely say Madonna. Janelle Monae, everybody! What's the other-

Zainab: Jidenna.

Rimarkable: Yeah, he performed with Janelle.

Zainab: Oh yeah, because they're on the same label.

Rimarkable: They did that horrible song. It was weird ass protest song.

Rekha: That was a long cold day. He played exactly one song at the end.

Zainab: I like Jidenna.

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Rekha: All right guys. Thank you so much!

382
Survey Data

383
How long have you been DJing
13 responses

less than 1 year

1-3 years
4-6 years
7-10 years
610+

How many times do you DJ in a month?

13 responses

00-1
02-5
06-10
*11-15

384
What software do you use?
13 responses

none; I am analog
Serato DJ/ Scratch Live
Traktor
Rekordbox
Ableton
rekordbox and traktor
I use a serato cdj / tt / controller setup
for more open format wedding type
events
Ableton and Serato DJ Pro

What primary medium do you use to DJ?

13 responses

Turntables with vinyl

CJDs with discs
USB sticks
DJ Controller
Laptop
cd-js with usb
* use all of the above
Or vinyl:)

Do you produce your own DJ events?

13 responses

Yes
*No

385
At what age did you start DJing?
13 responses

22

0
12 20 21 24 25 26

386